06-26-2014, 11:55 PM
1,872 posts, read
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Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hawaiian by heart
Yeah wink whats important is to have you focus in what was essentially Hawaiis stone age era to point out that the hawaiians conquered and killed others so we can justify our illegal overthrow of an kingdom more advanced then us in different ways. Basicly no fair you cant punish me mom, johnny down the street hit a girl two mths ago and wasn't punished and everyone does it.
While being the police man of the world.
Again Hawaiian By Heart,
you aren't paying attention ! I have never,
EVER said that any of the wrongs done by people from the past were justified.
What I have said is that in order to learn from history, we must know all of it. I have also said that you can not punish the people of today for the sins of people from the past. However, if you are going to, then you must at the very least do it equally and fairly across the board correcting all the wrongs, not just a few.
Please read the above more than once so that it finally sinks in and please stop misrepresenting my views.
06-27-2014, 12:16 AM
Location: mainland but born oahu
6,657 posts, read
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Reputation: 3137
Quote:
Originally Posted by
McFrostyJ
Again Hawaiian By Heart,
you aren't paying attention ! I have never,
EVER said that any of the wrongs done by people from the past were justified.
What I have said is that in order to learn from history, we must know all of it. I have also said that you can not punish the people of today for the sins of people from the past. However, if you are going to, then you must at the very least do it equally and fairly across the board correcting all the wrongs, not just a few.
Please read the above more than once so that it finally sinks in and please stop misrepresenting my views.
Uhmm justice cant be equally administered, by your model and reasoning its no game or change. Have i misrepresented you?
06-27-2014, 12:22 AM
Location: mainland but born oahu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
72 cuft
You always forget to mention that the Kingdom was Illegal since it was only created through the same sort of violence you accuse the USA of. Even it it was us who deposed your silly monarchy, it would be the proper thing to do, since it was an illegal (by your standards), silly monarchy. You never seem to take that step however, focusing, instead of the evil haole. Kam and Co. lived by the sword (I mean club) and suffered a similar fate.
compareing stone age to modern age?
Ok whatever rocks your boat. So im curious? When iraq invaded kuwait, why did we send troops if everyone does it and its ok?
Dude you also need to study history because by international law what our country did was illegal. In the stone ages it wasn't, but being enlighten modern age people we can recognise its wrong.
06-27-2014, 12:31 AM
1,872 posts, read
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Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hawaiian by heart
Uhmm justice cant be equally administered, by your model and reasoning its no game or change. Have i misrepresented you?
Not no change. Change is good if done justly. Correcting some wrongs, while ignoring others that were at least equally as wrong, is not justice. Punishing the people of today for the sins of people long, long ago, is not justice.
Hawaiian By Heart, how many people living in Hawaii today are 100% native Hawaiian? How many are not? Should you unfairly take from a
HUGE amount of people because of things they weren't even alive do, to give to the few who also had nothing to do with the events of the past?
06-27-2014, 12:45 AM
Location: mainland but born oahu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
72 cuft
You just don't GET IT AT ALL. Legal or otherwise, good, bad or indifferent, don't know, don't care.
So basically the end justifies the means?
06-27-2014, 01:02 AM
Location: mainland but born oahu
6,657 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
McFrostyJ
Not no change. Change is good if done justly. Correcting some wrongs, while ignoring others that were at least equally as wrong, is not justice. Punishing the people of today for the sins of people long, long ago, is not justice.
Hawaiian By Heart, how many people living in Hawaii today are 100% native Hawaiian? How many are not? Should you unfairly take from a
HUGE amount of people because of things they weren't even alive do, to give to the few who also had nothing to do with the events of the past?
I will respond with this, you seem to be stuck on this being a past event? Its not, if its was a past event then modern hawaiians wouldn't be still paying for the actions of our ancestors. Think about it.
1) How many current Hawaiians know there languages because of outlawing it?
2) How many fullblooded hawaiians are left after introduction of westerners or hawaiians period?
3) How many are living in worse poverty etc now then in the Hawaiian kingdom?
06-27-2014, 01:23 AM
1,872 posts, read
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Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hawaiian by heart
I will respond with this, you seem to be stuck on this being a past event? Its not, if its was a past event then modern hawaiians wouldn't be still paying for the actions of our ancestors. Think about it.
1) Is the Hawaiian language still illegal? Nope! In fact, Hawaiian is one of the two official languages of the state of Hawaii.
2) How many full blooded Hawaiians choose to marry people who were not full blooded Hawaiian? Were they forced to do so? Nope!
3) I would say a very small percentage. Many people living in poverty today in the United Staes, including Hawaii, still have food, clothing, shelter. Many have cell phones, TV etc... Yes, there are homeless in Hawaii although many are not native Hawaiians.
Ok, I've answered your questions. Can you now please answer mine?
How many people living in Hawaii today are 100% native Hawaiian? How many are not? Should you unfairly take from a HUGE amount of people because of things they weren't even alive do, to give to the few who also had nothing to do with the events of the past?
06-27-2014, 01:33 AM
941 posts, read
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Reputation: 1338
I've been lurking on this thread and the other similar one (
United States Hawaii Islands ), tempted to join in.
You know what, 72cuft is right. What's done is done. Screw the past and forget it.
Hawaiian by heart is right too: the way things are now is all messed up, and will only get worse. Screw the current regime as well, it's corrupt and will destroy what makes Hawaii unique, and there's no reason why shouldn't it be undone.
Therefore, the only solution is decolonization. Doesn't have to be violent like Ireland. More like Palau. Here's some interesting reading:
Legal status of Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Compact of Free Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Only by being self-governing and sovereign, can Hawaii enact the laws necessary to limit immigration, protect farmland, and shield itself from western greed and militarism.
What is really lacking is a realistic picture of what Hawaii could be as an independent country. Imagine a book like Michener's Hawaii that starts in 1959 and goes for 100 years until Hawaii wins it's peaceful independence, one island at a time, and then another 100 years as it establishes a fully modern and sustainable country, rooted in agriculture, renewable energy, sustainable eco-tourism.
Optimistic, yes. Far-fetched, no!
06-27-2014, 02:05 AM
Location: Kahala
12,120 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
KauaiHiker
What is really lacking is a realistic picture of what Hawaii could be as an independent country.
What is lacking in your plan is that over a million people who actually live here have no desire for Hawaii to be an independent country and actually like being an American Citizen.
06-27-2014, 04:23 AM
Location: Maui County, HI
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Hawaii isn't going to become independent any time soonbut we need to recognize the wrongs that were done to the Hawaiians, starting with the decimation of 75% of the population due to western diseases (not often spoken about) all the way up to the overthrow by the plantation owners (with the help of rogue US Navy officers and NOT the US government). BTW it's worth noting that Baldwin was the one plantation tycoon who opposed the overthrow.
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Median household income ($)
Median household income (% change since 2000)
Household income diversity
Ratio of average income to average house value (%)
Ratio of average income to average rent
Median household income ($) - White
Median household income ($) - Black or African American
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Median household income ($) - Hispanic or Latino
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Median household income for houses/condos with a mortgage ($)
Median household income for apartments without a mortgage ($)
Races - White alone (%)
Races - White alone (% change since 2000)
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Races - Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone (% change since 2000)
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Deaths caused by coronavirus (Apr 23, 2024)
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Daily increase in number of cases (Apr 23, 2024)
Weekly increase in number of cases (Apr 23, 2024)
Cases doubled (in days) (Apr 23, 2024)
Hospitalized patients (Apr 18, 2022)
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Air pollution - Air Quality Index (AQI)
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Crime - City-data.com crime index
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Crime - Murders per 100,000 population (5 year average)
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Crime - Assaults per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Burglaries per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Thefts per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Auto thefts per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Arson per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - City-data.com crime index (5 year average)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Dole)
1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Gore)
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Housing units in structures - 2 (%)
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Housing units in structures - 5 to 9 (%)
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Housing units in structures - 50 or more (%)
Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
Renter moved in on average (years ago)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
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Working at home (%)
Industry diversity
Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining (%)
Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting (%)
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Occupation diversity
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People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
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People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
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People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
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People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
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People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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