What happened to Memphis? (Jackson, Huntsville: unemployed, neighborhood, buy)
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Yea, blame everything on the black folk. I guess all those white residents who just so choose to run for the hills when school integration came down had nothing to do with this city's current plight. I will admit, the black population had a lot to do with the decline in the City of Memphis (by electing and re-electing idiots), but the blame can not be solely placed there. No city can survive when its tax base fleas.
No doubt there's some truth in what you say, but what family man/woman can make a stand, right?
I mean to say schools that start "going black" end up being fight zones and academic achievement suffers. How do you know immediately a school is a bad one? It's full of blacks, true?
You can say what you want about the budgets of said schools, but really, a school is a room with books and a teacher. The kids largely set the environment as conducive to learning or not. Current black youth culture is "gangsta" and "ghetto". Driven to some extend, I'd guess by black media (i.e. rap, etc.) Same as other ethnic groups mimic their successful "artists", LOL!
So as a family man/woman, white flight is not only the right choice, it's the only ethical choice allowed other than private school.
Blacks were once the most oppressed. But now they are the most criminal and virulent. So really, what else can you do but try to earn enough to live away from the problem?
This is why bussing makes people want to scream. You go to the effort to extricate you family from the problems... and so they bring the problem to you! Your tax dollars at work!
So the answer is the same. The black parents, have to instill a different work ethic in their children come school age, at least as a start.
You see, that's just it- those things are happening all over the country and not all of those cities are falling to CRAP. I live in Colorado now and there is a LOT of racism regarding hispanics; selveral businesses have closed and are closing because of the economic issues, yet somehow the population here seems to be doing OK. Yes, there is high unemployment, yes people are loosing their homes- the difference is that the CITY and it's people aren't giving up and looking for someone to blame.
Maybe that's it- maybe there are 3 types of people in Memphis; some are wanting someone to blame, others want someone to save them and then the rest are just leaving town.
I just wanted to get an idea of what happened.
Hispanics have a different culture and heritage than blacks. They don't carry the "400 years o' slavery" chip on their shoulder and don't subscribe as much to "gangsta" culture.
Not sure what city in Colorado you're near, but IIRC Denver had the highest black population at around 10%, even had a black mayor for 8 years (Wellington Webb). But in general Colorado is a fairly non-black place, below national averages. So perhaps critical mass hasn't been reached yet.
But when it does, I suspect the outcome will be the same. Can't say it's invariable, but it seems a statistically valid extrapolation.
Consider Detroit. Detroit wasn't always as bad as now, but once it went black, it was always bad. At some point it had to be doing fairly well. The Big 3, with a unionized work force paid rather well. And yet it was still, well... Detroit.
Basically the fact "Black = Decline" has got to be thrown on the table and the reasons examined. Sure, flight from blacks may be a part. But it's not the whole story. Folks take flight from that which, well, sucks. OK, fine, so folks take flight from blacks. That's pretty much a repeated historical fact. So the black community will need to work with it as a fact and accept it as part of the landscape. Integration hasn't changed anyone's mind. Just polarized people even more. The basic equation "Black = Higher Crime, Lower Property Value, etc." must change visibly before flight will stop. Only the blacks themselves can change that equation.
Here's some data to consider. All the worst places are at or approaching majority black, or at the very least significantly above the national average. It's a very strong correlation.
Blaming white flight doesn't work. The places they "fly" too, don't have these sorts of numbers. Point is, where the concentration of blacks goes up, so does the problem level. Where the level drops, so does the problem level.
Take Detroit. Massive black majority, so "whitey" isn't the major player. Yet even with a much lessened presence of "white devils", well Detroit is #1 on the list.
You want things to change? The blacks of Detroit would need to spin it around so folks are saying, "Geez they may be poor, but I'd move to Detroit, blacks are so peaceful..."
The truth hurts, I guess, but I don't believe anyone on here is saying in absolute terms that blacks in their entirety are bad. That's just not the case. All of us know and appreciate good hardworking, ethically straight and morally right members of our society who happen to be black. I have a problem with the segment of the black culture spawned by the rap/prison/kill the cop era. So many young people emulate the facade of easy-money, big houses, big cars, good drugs, fast women when in fact, it's the record companies who've invented it and exploited it to the point where it's impossible for an impressionable young person to ignore. It's not all their fault, but, living right IS their decision and the decision of their parents. It's created a new, extremely large population of kids who have warped senses of entitlement and huge chips on their shoulders. They have absolutely no idea what it was like living in the traditional times of segregation and imo, have no right to lean on that as an excuse to do as they please no matter the consequences. They certainly haven't earned that chip and have no right to carry it. Most of those who lived during that time appreciate the changes and the level of societal interaction that would have been thought impossible 50 years ago. Now, many of their kids and grandkids are blowing it big time.
Take my neighborhood for example. Nice quiet inner ring suburb of Nashville about 5 miles from downtown. It's majority white, always has been, but a generous sprinkling of diversity. One of my neighbors has a black boyfriend. Fine. But in the two years he's lived here, he hasn't had a job, dealt drugs out of the house, brought hoochie mamas into the house when his girlfriend is at work, thumps very loud low bass music tossing the F-bombs, MFs, and all manner of nonsense through this usually quiet neighborhood. I would love to have a black neighbor who was a neighbor and friend. Instead I get a neighbor who makes it very clear, and has stated loudly, "I don't give a f***what "they" say." They is us, white folks.
None of us are going anywhere. We're going to stick it out and jump for joy when that bad element ends up in the jail. We're gonna make it happen if we can.
I salute the blacks of this country who get along with each other and us. They don't even have to try; it's just part of being a part of society. There are rules of decency and many have no idea what that means. So, THOSE are the ones discussed, not the good people. So, if you have a problem with what's being said here, go somewhere, get the door slammed in your face, let your mother or children hear the words of the songs blasting through the air, look at the ghetto creatures that are being invited into your neighborhood and watch the trash accumulate in the yard. It's indefensible. And I don't care what color they are, but coincidentally, our only neighborhood problems happen to be black. And that's the truth, no racism, just the bare facts. Go ahead, be shocked by what's said. Liberal attitudes have created this monster and hopefully, liberal attitudes will be held accountable when this country implodes because "running amok" is the "right" thing. Yeah, right.
The truth hurts, I guess, but I don't believe anyone on here is saying in absolute terms that blacks in their entirety are bad. That's just not the case. All of us know and appreciate good hardworking, ethically straight and morally right members of our society who happen to be black. I have a problem with the segment of the black culture spawned by the rap/prison/kill the cop era. So many young people emulate the facade of easy-money, big houses, big cars, good drugs, fast women when in fact, it's the record companies who've invented it and exploited it to the point where it's impossible for an impressionable young person to ignore. It's not all their fault, but, living right IS their decision and the decision of their parents. It's created a new, extremely large population of kids who have warped senses of entitlement and huge chips on their shoulders. They have absolutely no idea what it was like living in the traditional times of segregation and imo, have no right to lean on that as an excuse to do as they please no matter the consequences. They certainly haven't earned that chip and have no right to carry it. Most of those who lived during that time appreciate the changes and the level of societal interaction that would have been thought impossible 50 years ago. Now, many of their kids and grandkids are blowing it big time.
Take my neighborhood for example. Nice quiet inner ring suburb of Nashville about 5 miles from downtown. It's majority white, always has been, but a generous sprinkling of diversity. One of my neighbors has a black boyfriend. Fine. But in the two years he's lived here, he hasn't had a job, dealt drugs out of the house, brought hoochie mamas into the house when his girlfriend is at work, thumps very loud low bass music tossing the F-bombs, MFs, and all manner of nonsense through this usually quiet neighborhood. I would love to have a black neighbor who was a neighbor and friend. Instead I get a neighbor who makes it very clear, and has stated loudly, "I don't give a f***what "they" say." They is us, white folks.
None of us are going anywhere. We're going to stick it out and jump for joy when that bad element ends up in the jail. We're gonna make it happen if we can.
I salute the blacks of this country who get along with each other and us. They don't even have to try; it's just part of being a part of society. There are rules of decency and many have no idea what that means. So, THOSE are the ones discussed, not the good people. So, if you have a problem with what's being said here, go somewhere, get the door slammed in your face, let your mother or children hear the words of the songs blasting through the air, look at the ghetto creatures that are being invited into your neighborhood and watch the trash accumulate in the yard. It's indefensible. And I don't care what color they are, but coincidentally, our only neighborhood problems happen to be black. And that's the truth, no racism, just the bare facts. Go ahead, be shocked by what's said. Liberal attitudes have created this monster and hopefully, liberal attitudes will be held accountable when this country implodes because "running amok" is the "right" thing. Yeah, right.
'I ain't mad atcha'...I read your post from stem to stern before replying, and frankly, to these eyes, you didn't say anything that wasn't true---and I'm as black as the day is long...
Truth be told, too many of us on both sides of the racial divide tend to use an old worn-out mantra---'HE/SHE is a (racist, thug, redneck, criminal), therefore they ALL are!'...and that's a shame because it keeps us from truly getting to know each other...
Over the years, I myself have had to step back and re-examine some of my thought processes, because they were flat-out wrong...and you were dead-on when you say that the younger generation just wants to swell up and act bad-ass all the time, acting as if no one can tell them anything, and not recognizing the folks that came before them...there are rules and said rules (gasp!) apply to them too, no matter how much they walk around mean-mugging and being anti-social...
Refreshing dialogue, sir...I only wish that all the rest of us could discover that it's OK to be candid, and not worry so much about beoing politically correct...
Religious fundamentalism that preach hate against minorities !!! Please tell me what church you
go to.
in fact that observation about Memphis is quite, quite true from my own experience
the brand of hatred they 'teach' is 'indirect' and sneaky racism, cloaked in "Chritianity" which is very very odd indeed...
the churches in Memphis (white mostly, then black for sure) have done NOTHING really to facilitate productive growth, community understanding and unity of purpose......they do 'just enough' not to be called out about their clear lack of purpose in uniting a community..
whites build edifices to themselves....that might as well be 'civic centers' and really function as 'country clubs', purposefully designed to 'control' social interaction and membership.....swimming pools, tennis courts, bowling alleys, snack bars, private gyms/fitness centers...etc.......all that have NOTHING to do with being evangelical or being a steward of Christianity.........again, many are nothing more than 'tax advantaged country clubs/social clubs', whose exemptions probably should be revoked under current law......
Yes, churches in Memphis had played a huge role in maintaining a bifurcated social structure....if you can't see that or acknowledge that simple social fact, you are a blind fool indeed.......churches in Memphis still are one of the most 'segregated', still-standing institutions (both/all races)........
in short, they are bogus Christians....simply BOGUS......and the white membership still can't get their heads around the fact that they are worshipping a non-white, Semitic JEW, named Jesus.....and can't fathom the fact that even Moses married a Black Woman.....the irony is quite revealing.....
the assertion that churches in Memphis have aided and abetted racism, certainly 'has legs'.........and is known by any resident who has been in Memphis for years and years
The truth hurts, I guess, but I don't believe anyone on here is saying in absolute terms that blacks in their entirety are bad. That's just not the case. All of us know and appreciate good hardworking, ethically straight and morally right members of our society who happen to be black. I have a problem with the segment of the black culture spawned by the rap/prison/kill the cop era. So many young people emulate the facade of easy-money, big houses, big cars, good drugs, fast women when in fact, it's the record companies who've invented it and exploited it to the point where it's impossible for an impressionable young person to ignore. It's not all their fault, but, living right IS their decision and the decision of their parents. It's created a new, extremely large population of kids who have warped senses of entitlement and huge chips on their shoulders. They have absolutely no idea what it was like living in the traditional times of segregation and imo, have no right to lean on that as an excuse to do as they please no matter the consequences. They certainly haven't earned that chip and have no right to carry it. Most of those who lived during that time appreciate the changes and the level of societal interaction that would have been thought impossible 50 years ago. Now, many of their kids and grandkids are blowing it big time.
Take my neighborhood for example. Nice quiet inner ring suburb of Nashville about 5 miles from downtown. It's majority white, always has been, but a generous sprinkling of diversity. One of my neighbors has a black boyfriend. Fine. But in the two years he's lived here, he hasn't had a job, dealt drugs out of the house, brought hoochie mamas into the house when his girlfriend is at work, thumps very loud low bass music tossing the F-bombs, MFs, and all manner of nonsense through this usually quiet neighborhood. I would love to have a black neighbor who was a neighbor and friend. Instead I get a neighbor who makes it very clear, and has stated loudly, "I don't give a f***what "they" say." They is us, white folks.
None of us are going anywhere. We're going to stick it out and jump for joy when that bad element ends up in the jail. We're gonna make it happen if we can.
I salute the blacks of this country who get along with each other and us. They don't even have to try; it's just part of being a part of society. There are rules of decency and many have no idea what that means. So, THOSE are the ones discussed, not the good people. So, if you have a problem with what's being said here, go somewhere, get the door slammed in your face, let your mother or children hear the words of the songs blasting through the air, look at the ghetto creatures that are being invited into your neighborhood and watch the trash accumulate in the yard. It's indefensible. And I don't care what color they are, but coincidentally, our only neighborhood problems happen to be black. And that's the truth, no racism, just the bare facts. Go ahead, be shocked by what's said. Liberal attitudes have created this monster and hopefully, liberal attitudes will be held accountable when this country implodes because "running amok" is the "right" thing. Yeah, right.
I must say I agree with everything in your post. Facts are facts; and the truth does sting sometimes. Unfortunately this is a problem 50 years in the making. The reason I initially brought up flight is because when it first started it was not because of the negative elements of black society that we see today. The initial flight was to get away from anyone with black skin; no matter how great of a person or family they might have been. When black families began to move into mostly white neighborhoods in the 1960's and 1970's these were not trashy ghetto black people. These were solid black families who worked hard to earn enough money to afford a home in those areas; even with the disadvantages they faced. The fact that these people were solid citizens and neighbors made no difference to the people in the all white neighborhoods. As soon as they saw a black face on the block the "For Sale" signs stated popping up. Black society has not always had the negative aspects that we see today. There was a time when the black family unit was one of the strongest you could find. Fathers were in the home and the illegitimacy rate was nothing like we see today (approximately 70%). With the absolute refusal of some whites to accept black people for so long, we got the extreme overreach of liberal, feel good politicians who created policies that basically destroyed the black family. The do gooders felt that black people could not take care of themselves and created this entitlement society we see today. We wonder why people today are so trifling and lazy, wanting something for nothing, but forget the system that created this ridiculous mindset. The great society policies killed the black family by basically making the need for a man in the home obsolete; handing out welfare at a higher rate to single mothers and reducing benefits if a man was in the home. Before these policies were in place black families had to stick together out of necessity. Nobody was going to give us anything and we were better for it. Men and women married, raised families and survived. Now having a black father in the home is a rarity. Now we have a recipe for disaster with generations of black men growing up without a father and seeing the negative images of the gansta rap culture that encourages thuggery and looks down on education and civility. If MLK could see us now he would be rolling over in his grave. In the civil rights era black people did not want a hand out; they wanted equal opportunity. Some of the great society policies were needed to expedite the closing of the gap in quality of life among blacks and whites, but these same policies destroyed the family.
The decline in black society is a separate issue from the decline in now majority black cities in my opinion. The decline in the cities began prior to the decline in black society, but as the decline in society started the cities decline got much worse. At the time when flight began there was not a solid black middle class. When white people left the cities, so did the tax base. With this being the case, property values fell, funding levels for schools and services decreased and the cities began to erode from within. They were now populated by a large poor black majority trying to supply the taxes needed to sustain the city’s infrastructure. As infrastructure declined industry left as well as business. Jobs became scarce and black workers were left out in the cold. This increased the number of black families on welfare and stared the increase in crime. Mix in the removal of the father from the home and the introduction of crack cocaine to the black community and you have the perfect storm. Children are now being raised by one parent. Fathers and mothers are strung out on drugs and unemployed. The kids have no hope and the cycle begins. Now bring in the gansta rap era and its rebellious “I don’t give a ***” message. This all brings us to our current state. Of course, there is a larger segment of black society that was able to rise above these negative aspects, but as you all know the loud rambunctious minority gets all the attention from the media. Today you have a much larger black middle and upper class and more black citizens with higher levels of education, but that 30% to 40% of the black population that has fallen prey to this decline is really in a bad way. The bad part is that these people are multiplying like rabbits and the other black citizens are not having children as fast, which makes me fear that the future may get worse before it gets better. In my opinion there will not be a radical change in the black community until blacks stop voting at a 95% clip for liberal democrats. The Democratic Party has taken the black vote for granted and only gives out entitlements to sustain the voting block. They do not have our best interest at heart. They see the problems but only keep feeding it, refusing to make the tough decisions that will help in fear of loosing votes. I don’t know if the Republicans care to have black voters with the southern strategy they have used over the last 40 years, but I do think black voters need to be more selective instead of voting solely for the Democrats. To summarize, I acknowledge most of what has been posted in this thread and see exactly where you guys are coming from. It is what it is, and the facts can not be denied. The black community will have to fix the problems before we can expect the trends to change, but until there is a paradigm shift and a change in the entitlement system this is going to be really hard to do. It may take another 50 years to correct the problems.
Last edited by Tigertate; 08-19-2010 at 10:57 AM..
the assertion that churches in Memphis have aided and abetted racism, certainly 'has legs'.........and is known by any resident who has been in Memphis for years and years
HOW ABOUT THAT FOR BEING 'CANDID' ?
Sunday morning between 11:00-12:00 is the most segregated hour of the week. Churches like Six Flag over Jesus pay lip service to minorities by proudly pointing out that they have Black members, but consistently hold the line of intolerance and hate when it comes to sexual preference, which they continue to ignorantly characterize as a choice and a sin.
You can control your sexual behavior, but you cannot control your sexual preference. This simple concept is lost on the twice born.
I'm asking this question legitimately. I don't want to hear about businesses closing, the disparity between the races or the current state of the economy.
If you don't want to hear about contributing factors, then would it be legitimate?
Quote:
I grew up in Memphis from the 80's through the 90s and moved away around 1994 and things seemed pretty great. I know that you can "Never go home again", but this situation does not fall into the catagory of things not being as great as they seemed to me when I was a child or teen. I visited Memphis yearly or more from 94 through 2002 and I noticed things get progressivly worse after 2000. I didn't visit again until late 2004 and by that time I was really upset to see what the city had become.
Memphis had more problems in the 1980s, especially fiscal issues. What happened between 2000 - 2004. Be specific.
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Unless you were in the most expensive parts of town the depression that gripped the city was obvious everywhere. Stores were dirty, homes were unkept and several businesses seems to be closed or on their way out of business.
The Memphis economy grew at a solid 5.5% from the mid 90s to mid2000s. Although, most have suffered in one way or another in the grips of the "Great Recession".
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I just got back from a week long trip and no longer feel that the city I was born and raised in even exists anymore. Entire blocks of businesses are closed.
Memphis was no longer the same place after your week long trip? What?
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Several homes have been left vacant and vandalized and no one even looks at or talksto each other on the street.
Well, if only "several" homes were left vacant, I guess Memphis is doing pretty good in that department. Also, it's usually considered rude to approach people on the streets in major cities, be ready for mixed reactions if you try.
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Again, I know that it's a little different when you get to the expensive business districts, or in the areas where developers and investors have spent a pretty penney cleaning things up and clearing out the less desirable people and buildings.
Of course it is. ???
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What I'm asking is--- What happened to the sense of pride that the city once knew? What happened to Memphis being the capitol of the Mid-South rather than just another po-dunk stop along I-40/55? The Zoo and Pyramid were supposed to be just stepping stones to ensuring that Memphis was the crossroads from East to West- West to East that St. Louis used to claim to be.
That's your question? Hahahahahahaha. The Zoo & Pyramid were supposed to ensure our position as the East-West crossroads... What?! Hahahaha
Come on, give us a break. You must be joking!
Last edited by Johnny Ryall; 08-19-2010 at 10:31 AM..
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