For those that like to compare Cordova to Hickory Hill (Germantown: home, income)
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First off Hickory Hill consists of two zip codes 38115 and 38141 just like Cordova. Secondly tigertates stats are off. Also I do not know why you put the racial demographic information up as if that makes some difference in the neighborhood's quality. I find that low key racist. Also it is funny because Blacks will be the majority in Cordova in the next ten years as well as Desoto county in about 15 years. Face the facts Blacks and Hispanics have more babies while Whites continue to have 1 child and 2 dogs and keep moving further and further out to get away from Black and Brown people. The following statistics are taken from the U.S. census bureau census 2010. American FactFinder - Community Facts American FactFinder - Community Facts American FactFinder - Community Facts
Cordova (38106)= 63.8% owner occupied and 36.2% renter occupied
Hickory Hill (38141)= 73.3% owner occupied and 26.7% renter occupied
Cordova (38108)= 73.3% owner occupied and 26.7% renter occupied
As shown when factoring Hickory Hill zip code 38141 the number of renters is smaller than Cordova 38106 and equal to 38108. Your facts were off. Please only use the Census Bureau Census 2010 when pulling statistics because it is the only reliable scholary source.
Median houing value
Hickory Hill 38141= $101,800
Cordova 38106= $169,000
Cordova 38108= $164,900
Cordova's median and mean incomes are higher than Hickory Hill but the values you used are inaccurate.
I am not going to argue with you about stats. I pulled my information from City Data since we are posting on this site. Yes, 38141 is also considered part of Hickory Hill, but many sections of 38141 are not a part of Memphis, so I did not include that zip into the comparison. The racial demographics were shown as a matter of comparison between the two areas; mainly to show that Cordova is more racially diverse. There was no racist intent. It is usually not good to jump to that conclusion. I also think if you look at the racial demographic numbers that you posted you would see that they are exactly the same as what I posted when you combine both Cordova zip codes. This information did come from the 2010 census. I actually grew up in 38141. We lived in the neighborhood south of Holmes between Ross and Riverdale. I graduated from Kirby High in the mid to late 90's. I am very familiar with the 38141 area and I think many parts of that zip are still quite nice. I really like the neighborhood just north of Holmes between Riverdale and Ross with the lakes. I think it is called Lakepoint or something. I had many friends growing up that lived in that neighborhood and in the Hedgerow neighborhood. I honestly think this area has remained nice because there are no large apartment complexes nearby. I consider HH to be the area that surrounds the Mall, which is 38115. My wife grew up in that area and her mom still lives there. That area is a mess. Would you not agree with that statement? There are too many low budget apartments in that area and the crime is sky high. My post was not intended to disrespect anyone’s neighborhood. There are good residents even in the worst parts of town. I would have no problem living in parts of 38141. I would have an issue with most of 38115. The bottom line is Cordova is a more desirable area than HH and Cordova has not experienced much of the decline that we have seen in HH (particularly is 38115). Much of 38141 is comparable to the residential areas of Cordova.
First off Hickory Hill consists of two zip codes 38115 and 38141 just like Cordova. Secondly tigertates stats are off. Also I do not know why you put the racial demographic information up as if that makes some difference in the neighborhood's quality. I find that low key racist. Also it is funny because Blacks will be the majority in Cordova in the next ten years as well as Desoto county in about 15 years. Face the facts Blacks and Hispanics have more babies while Whites continue to have 1 child and 2 dogs and keep moving further and further out to get away from Black and Brown people. The following statistics are taken from the U.S. census bureau census 2010. American FactFinder - Community Facts American FactFinder - Community Facts American FactFinder - Community Facts
Cordova (38106)= 63.8% owner occupied and 36.2% renter occupied
Hickory Hill (38141)= 73.3% owner occupied and 26.7% renter occupied
Cordova (38108)= 73.3% owner occupied and 26.7% renter occupied
As shown when factoring Hickory Hill zip code 38141 the number of renters is smaller than Cordova 38106 and equal to 38108. Your facts were off. Please only use the Census Bureau Census 2010 when pulling statistics because it is the only reliable scholary source.
Median houing value
Hickory Hill 38141= $101,800
Cordova 38106= $169,000
Cordova 38108= $164,900
Cordova's median and mean incomes are higher than Hickory Hill but the values you used are inaccurate.
For the sake of accuracy, Cordova zip codes are 38016 and 38018 - not 38106 and 38108....
Also, since you make the "low key racist" comment about the other post, I consider your comment that " Whites continue to have 1 child and 2 dogs and keep moving further and further out to get away from Black and Brown people" to be overtly racist. By and large people moved further and further out for reasons other than the proximity of people of other races.
-That's where new subdivisions were developed and many people prefer new construction.
-People fled to the county where their children could attend public schools and still get a good education.
-People fled to the county in the hope that the complete incompetence of city government would effect them to a lesser degree
I could go on and on, but white flight hasn't been a significant factor in probably 40 years. Blacks as well as whites have fled the inner city for the same reasons.
JoeCartpath the zipcodes were a typo it was like 7am and I had just finished an 11 day work week. Give me a break. lol. My comment was meant to sound racist because of how many times people in the Memphis forum say racist comments that go unchecked. Also I agree to a point that yes Blacks have left the city core for better neighborhoods and schools but what happens when they do? For example people on here call the 38125 zip code ghetto and crime ridden. Why is that? Because Blacks started moving there and are now the majority. 38125 is one of the nicest areas in Memphis. Horn Lake is another example. People on here bash Horn lake another part of the metro where middle class Blacks have been moving to. Also a lot of the comments about Cordova have a racial edge to them. No sane person would call Cordova ghetto or even think it is turning ghetto. You know how many times people on here make those negative statements about Cordova. I am not saying all or even the vast majority of Whites living in the burbs moved to escape Blacks. But you are naive if you think none did. A good portion did and wheter are not they are the majority they tend to be the most vocal on these forums.
By and large people moved further and further out for reasons other than the proximity of people of other races....I could go on and on, but white flight hasn't been a significant factor in probably 40 years.
I am all for academic sources to backup my claims. Here is an article from 1999 in the Memphis flyer about Hickory Hill. It covers racism experienced by a Black family that moved there in the early 90's and talks about how whole neighborhoods went from majority White to majority Black in months because as soon as Blacks moved on the block for sale signs went up. This kind of debunks your whole white flight has not been relevant in 40's years theory. I can admitt that many Blacks in Memphis cultivate a culture and environment of crime and poverty. You need to admitt to yourself that many Whites in the metro create a culture of fear of Blacks. Keyword here is many not all.
Also Memphis as a whole needs to admitt it has cultivated a culture of race being to important of an issue. I mean for Godsake's race was not even this big deal when I lived in Mississippi. It's the 21st century and Memphis has the potential to be a world class metropolitan area if the people can put all this race stuff aside and the people in the city stop bashing the suburbs and the suburbs stop bashing city. And instead of removing historical park names (majoring in southern history I found removing the names to be the stupidiest thing and I am Black) for race issues focus on fixing problems. Memphis needs to get out of the past and look toward the future. If we do that we can become the next Atlanta or Houston in the South.
FWIW, Cordova is probably the most diverse part of the city. I think it's encouraging that large numbers of blacks have moved in, but all the white people didn't run away. That didn't happen in Hickory Hill. Or Parkway Village. Or Whitehaven. Or Raleigh. Or Frayser. Maybe in the 21st Century, we've finally made some progress on the racial stuff. But I can see why people of a certain age are reluctant to believe it. Half the city is an old white neighborhood that turned black overnight. If I were older, I might not believe it were possible either.
I am all for academic sources to backup my claims. Here is an article from 1999 in the Memphis flyer about Hickory Hill. It covers racism experienced by a Black family that moved there in the early 90's and talks about how whole neighborhoods went from majority White to majority Black in months because as soon as Blacks moved on the block for sale signs went up. This kind of debunks your whole white flight has not been relevant in 40's years theory. I can admitt that many Blacks in Memphis cultivate a culture and environment of crime and poverty. You need to admitt to yourself that many Whites in the metro create a culture of fear of Blacks. Keyword here is many not all.
Also Memphis as a whole needs to admitt it has cultivated a culture of race being to important of an issue. I mean for Godsake's race was not even this big deal when I lived in Mississippi. It's the 21st century and Memphis has the potential to be a world class metropolitan area if the people can put all this race stuff aside and the people in the city stop bashing the suburbs and the suburbs stop bashing city. And instead of removing historical park names (majoring in southern history I found removing the names to be the stupidiest thing and I am Black) for race issues focus on fixing problems. Memphis needs to get out of the past and look toward the future. If we do that we can become the next Atlanta or Houston in the South.
Everything you said here is absolutely true. Of course none of the people debating you will ever admit it, though.
I can admit that many Blacks in Memphis cultivate a culture and environment of crime and poverty. You need to admitt to yourself that many Whites in the metro create a culture of fear of Blacks. Keyword here is many not all.
Memphis has a HUGE and glaring race problem, which is absolutely ridiculous for any American city the size of Memphis in the 21st Century, even if it is in the South. And you are absolutely right. The race problem is so bad in Memphis that it goes both ways.
I'll never forget being in undergrad at the University of Memphis circa 2001 and a black girl from Nashville in one of my classes about social issues commented on how bad and noticeable the race issue was in Memphis. She pointed out that everything in Memphis still felt segregated like it was still the 1960s, and that even on Beale Street, one half of the street was practically all white while the other half was practically all black. That was true then and it's still just as true now in 2013.
Being from Memphis, it's almost a shock to go to other Southern cities like Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, or even Nashville and see how easily and comfortably black, white, and other people mix socially. I think a lot of that has to do with a higher level of education and a larger number of transplants---many not even from the South---in many other places outside of Memphis. This is especially evident in the black populations in many of these other cities.
You alluded to this in your above comment, and I'm black so I'm just going to go ahead and say it: The black population in Memphis is REALLY behind and is particularly bad at cultivating and wallowing in a culture of crime, poverty, and ghetto behavior, so it's really a breath of fresh air to go to other Southern cities in the 21st Century and be able to meet and mix and mingle with educated, professional blacks who aren't socially awkward and limited to thinking, talking, and acting like they never left the hood (if they even come from the hood at all). Saying that will probably offend a lot of people, but it's true, and something that's really telling is the very low opinion that even other black people in other more modern, progressive, and diverse cities have of black people in Memphis. But to be fair, with Memphis being so close to and so heavily influenced by Mississippi and Arkansas, a large number of white Memphians aren't much better when it comes to social acceptance, forward thinking, and level of education. Mix all that in with people still not being able to get over Dr. King getting assassinated in Memphis 50 years ago and it's no wonder Memphis still has severe issues with race that keep it behind the rest of the South these days and makes it feel and even look like it's still firmly stuck in the 20th Century.
Last edited by Carlito Brigante; 06-16-2013 at 12:30 PM..
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