Memphis vs. the rest of tennessee (Knoxville: crime, live, cities)

[strumpeace]

Aside from the mob itself, street gangs are generally considered 'organized crime' as well. The Memphis PD's Organized Crime unit never seems to be short of work. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually doubt the existence of organized crime in Memphis. You're a first.

What do you know about Boss Crump? Just curious. Have you ever heard of Danny's -- the former strip club chain?

There's a fascinating book that covers a good part of Memphis' mob history -- Dixie's Dirty Secret: The True Story of How the Government, the Media, and the Mob Conspired to Combat Integration and the Vietnam Antiwar Movement. Check it out sometime. The mob in Memphis is generally referred to as the 'Dixie Mafia'.

[DubbleT]

Originally Posted by expatnortherner

If you look past the surface of the murders you'll find it's generally people that know each other killing each other. It's very rare you find a murder where the perp and the victim have not come in contact in some way, shape, or form.

This is true of murder in general, not just in Memphis, is it not? Along with property crime, poverty also frequently brings about violent crime. Robberies and drug related crimes often end in violence.
I live and work(ed) in Berclair, hardly one of the worst areas of Memphis, I live a very conservative lifestyle, yet I can list perhaps a dozen instances in which I have been witness to (or had my life touched in some way) by violent crime in Memphis.

Originally Posted by expatnortherner

Crime is relative, and as I mentioned you have mainly property crimes here. These are crimes stemming from economics ...
... it's not as bad here as you may *think* it is, and in fact it's not far from fixable. So you have a choice, buy-in to the hype or get real and help with the change.
Ex-Pat

So all we have to do is fix the poverty and all will be well? Sure, that sounds easy enough to do. Where shall we start? Revamping the school system, educating the workforce, eliminating gangs? Perhaps we could concentrate on re-electing our government officials and getting rid of the cronyism, the corruption and greed that has helped to perpetuate a lot of the poverty. You make it sound as though Memphis has a simple problem with a simple solution. I tend to think the problems run deeper than that, and the biggest challenge Memphis faces is the attitudes of the very people that need help the most.

[MemphisMonkeyMane]

Originally Posted by expatnortherner

It's no longer "your" city, it belongs to me now too, and everyone else moving here. In fact maybe moreso because I live 'IN' the city rather than the suburbs.

As more people move here you're going to have to accept that they will bring their socializations and sensibilities with them. No one is telling you your opinions are not valid, you just may find they quickly go out of date.

Ex-Pat

yeah I don't believe some one states that sort of stuff expat ..lol (what pearlbob said that is)


but that sort of xenphobism is commonplace in Memphis...

There's this 'love it or leave it' mentality, and I know better than you

sort of thing....

These people actually DO expect you to leave your standards, tastes

intellect, style, attitude, etc "at the city limits"...

I see it all the time

[MemphisMonkeyMane]

Originally Posted by strumpeace

Aside from the mob itself, street gangs are generally considered 'organized crime' as well. The Memphis PD's Organized Crime unit never seems to be short of work. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually doubt the existence of organized crime in Memphis. You're a first.

What do you know about Boss Crump? Just curious. Have you ever heard of Danny's -- the former strip club chain?

There's a fascinating book that covers a good part of Memphis' mob history -- Dixie's Dirty Secret: The True Story of How the Government, the Media, and the Mob Conspired to Combat Integration and the Vietnam Antiwar Movement. Check it out sometime. The mob in Memphis is generally referred to as the 'Dixie Mafia'.

whoa....are you talking about Danny Owens by chance ???????

if so, he's a piece of work..I know him.....his son is even worse....

and I know his sis.......Danny bought the house right behind me

off of Forest Hill Irene (from a friend of mine....nice house- copy of the

Humes Plantation)......

Yeah I saw plenty....and plenty of strange characters for sure...


I sold THAT house ....

[expatnortherner]

Multiple responses within:

There's a fascinating book that covers a good part of Memphis' mob history -- Dixie's Dirty Secret: The True Story of How the Government, the Media, and the Mob Conspired to Combat Integration and the Vietnam Antiwar Movement. Check it out sometime. The mob in Memphis is generally referred to as the 'Dixie Mafia'.

For the purposes of the example I think we need to align our timeframes. When I speak of no mob presence I'm talking now, not the past. You could start a business here and probably NEVER get 'the visit'. In NY, Philly, DC or Chicago you'll get a series of visits from different people explaining to you quite clearly how much to kick-up, when and who you'll be buying your services from. In fact the first 'visit' you get will be from the legal mob (fire inspector, building inspector, tax man, etc.). They are always the first to shake you down.

I appreciate the history on Crump et. al, but beyond opening a strip club an individual entrepreneur will never see or be touched by organized crime of the mafia kind. I grew up living next door to a Gotti business (cement). They don't hide, disguise or try to act like anything other than what they are. If anything they are great neighbors because local nuisance crime goes down to zero in a wise-guy neighborhood.

Aside from the mob itself, street gangs are generally considered 'organized crime' as well. The Memphis PD's Organized Crime unit never seems to be short of work. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually doubt the existence of organized crime in Memphis. You're a first.

I don't consider street gangs organized crime. They are more like loosely confederated bandits. Organized crime literally means organized crime, they own and control markets. In NY ALL the concrete makers, grave-diggers, plumbers, airport workers, dock-workers/longshoreman, fishermen, private sanitation, grease collectors, electricians and pipefitters were controlled by organized crime at one time or another. Not some, ALL. Gangs just aren't capable of organization to achieve that kind of reach. At least not yet.

So all we have to do is fix the poverty and all will be well? Sure, that sounds easy enough to do. Where shall we start? Revamping the school system, educating the workforce, eliminating gangs? Perhaps we could concentrate on re-electing our government officials and getting rid of the cronyism, the corruption and greed that has helped to perpetuate a lot of the poverty. You make it sound as though Memphis has a simple problem with a simple solution. I tend to think the problems run deeper than that, and the biggest challenge Memphis faces is the attitudes of the very people that need help the most.

It really is that simple. Strip it all down and crime is risk vs. reward. The only thing that separates you or I from being a criminal is the risk. Having said that there are two ways to fight crime, raise the risk or reduce the reward. You can only raise the risk so high before you slip into a police state (which brings a host of other problems).

The only other option is to reduce the reward. By increasing the number of jobs you do just that. Talk to any criminal and they'll cite 'lack of jobs' as a trigger for crime.

Once the average guy can feed his family through work you'll find a lot of the property crimes go down.

You'll never get rid of cronyism, just change who is doling it out. I highly suspect that this is where a certain degree of passive racism tends to flavor the feeling about politics as it seems that Memphis is no stranger to cronyism, just that now there's someone of color doing it.

Think about this for a minute, why would anyone in their right mind spend millions for a $160,000 a year job?

Ex-Pat

[DubbleT]

Originally Posted by expatnortherner

The only other option is to reduce the reward. By increasing the number of jobs you do just that. Talk to any criminal and they'll cite 'lack of jobs' as a trigger for crime.

Once the average guy can feed his family through work you'll find a lot of the property crimes go down.

Lack of jobs in Memphis, no. Lack of jobs that pay a living wage for unskilled labor, yes.
The under educated don't have that many options. What sort of jobs would you see provided for them?
How would you go about enticing companies to bring more good jobs here when Memphis has a reputation as having an uneducated/unskilled labor pool?
I think education is going to have to be addressed first before the job market can be improved.
Again, I say the "fix" is going to be more complex than you make it out to be.

Originally Posted by expatnortherner

You'll never get rid of cronyism, just change who is doling it out. I highly suspect that this is where a certain degree of passive racism tends to flavor the feeling about politics as it seems that Memphis is no stranger to cronyism, just that now there's someone of color doing it.

Think about this for a minute, why would anyone in their right mind spend millions for a $160,000 a year job?

Ex-Pat

Ah yes, our beloved Mayor Willie ...rather I was thinking more of the Ford family, and various members of the school board and city council who like to abuse their power. I do find it disheartening when the black community supports these criminals, based solely on the color of their skin. (Or maybe there is some other reason Herenton keeps getting re-elected that I'm unaware of? People don't actually think he's doing a bang up job, do they?) I don't really understand why the black community doesn't vilify these leaders/criminals when they prey upon their own communities. Why elect them over and over again when they are stealing from you?

I think I gave up on understanding the Memphis mentality back when the scandal came out some years back about the subsidized daycare referral scheme, and there didn't seem to be any huge pouring of outrage for the victims.

[spudwrench1973]

Hey Memphis is great if you want to see a game, a concert, or party on Beale St. but if you are looking for someplace to live and raise a family I would look elsewhere.

[expatnortherner]

Lack of jobs in Memphis, no. Lack of jobs that pay a living wage for unskilled labor, yes. The under educated don't have that many options. What sort of jobs would you see provided for them?

Good point. I think this will be an ongoing struggle due to the proximity of Memphis to rural America. There's no real buffer (like Jersey serves for NYC), and the city being what it is attracts people from the surrounding areas.

How would you go about enticing companies to bring more good jobs here when Memphis has a reputation as having an uneducated/unskilled labor pool? I think education is going to have to be addressed first before the job market can be improved. Again, I say the "fix" is going to be more complex than you make it out to be.

FedEx seems to do alright, I don't see them begging for talent. But then they have a global reach so at this point talent seeks them rather than vice-versa. In retrospect I agree that education has to be addressed. Every growing 'tech' city has at it's hub a major university or universities. We have the schools here, the commercial space, and the physical infrastructure, just not the support or vision to breed entrepreneurs out of schools instead of cogs for the corporate machine.

Ah yes, our beloved Mayor Willie ...rather I was thinking more of the Ford family, and various members of the school board and city council who like to abuse their power. I do find it disheartening when the black community supports these criminals, based solely on the color of their skin. (Or maybe there is some other reason Herenton keeps getting re-elected that I'm unaware of? People don't actually think he's doing a bang up job, do they?) I don't really understand why the black community doesn't vilify these leaders/criminals when they prey upon their own communities. Why elect them over and over again when they are stealing from you?

Someone is profiting from Herenton being in office, and I'm quite sure they aren't just Black. I think it's easy to scapegoat the Black community for his length of time in office, but realistically the numbers don't add up. He could not have won that many terms without some significant non-Black support somewhere.

You can only fool people with cheap magic tricks for so long before someone gets wise. But then again the Daley family did the same thing in Chicago for a number of years, so why not?

I think I gave up on understanding the Memphis mentality back when the scandal came out some years back about the subsidized daycare referral scheme, and there didn't seem to be any huge pouring of outrage for the victims.

I wasn't here at the time so I can't comment on it.

Ex-Pat

[eleven.]

My thoughts have always been: There's a simplicity to all of Memphis' problems and as archaic as it may sound, it all starts with a lack of PARENTING.

When a very large junior high school in the middle of the city has a parent-teacher open house and only TWO parents attend, there might be a problem...

When children don't receive attention, moral and ethical instruction, and basic skills training in their household- how are they expected to NOT follow the natural yearning for a sense of "family" and knowledge by hooking up with gangs, criminal associates, or "the mob"?!

If people would actually PARENT their children- promote self-confidence and integrity- tell them and SHOW them the right way and the right things- this entire city would change forever.

[cookieman]

Where is his house???