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NEVER taken a (drug) or experienced whatever their field in counseling 'degree' is in?
At 28 years of age I began my journey into being non-naive. Wow, what a trip it's been. I moved away from 'crazy' family to find out just who and what I am. You can't read that in a book. Aging to 41 next Saturday, I can say, I've done things (to me) I never thought I would. I've been places I never thought I would go. I've learned and done this mostly on my own, with a little help from 'friends' along the way. Life is so very simple in it's complications. It's a shame to see so many people believe, with all they are, that 'this couldn't happen to them'. I've sat next to several people with that very mentality in my 'adventures'. What doesn't kill you definitely makes you wiser and stronger.
But these people in positions to 'help' people without any true experience cannot possibly help something they really know nothing about. Books are only writings of experience, not the experience and 'feeling' itself. It's pompous to think otherwise. Anyone can read a book about something everyday for the rest of their lives and not have clue what it 'feels' to do that thing. What it takes to keep it going or give it up.
I would not be qualified to give marriage counseling just because I had read a few books, unless I had been married. Since I've never been, nor will be married, I could only be credited for reading to educate myself. Not be a counselor.
I've been taking a mild anti depressant/anxiety med for a few years now. When we moved here I was unable to afford it and ultimately had a tough time staying calm and positive. So I went to talk to someone, after receiving medicaid, about my anger, depression, and anxiety. Told him the truth about what I've experienced, and that I still smoke , only to have him attempt to turn what I went in for into what HIS perceptions of what my 'troubles' are. I guess based upon what he's READ. I lasted three sessions. What an idiot. (I went to a doctor and told him what my previous med was and am now taking it again) There is nothing quite as irritating than listening to someone that undoubtedly hasn't a clue of what they're saying, but wants you to believe they do. These people are known as 'know-it-alls'.
After all, you can't be a sponsor in A.A. unless you've been a drunk.
Last edited by shroombeanie; 11-21-2010 at 02:05 PM..
Reason: grammatical error
I'm not too sure what you're trying to say, but I do understand your frustration with the "book-learned' counselors.
Not to get OT here, but we've had problems with my ds for years. We've gone to many a counselor, turns out most don't have kids of their own, you'd think that would be the first step in telling someone else how to raise one.
All they do is give us a list of books to read. Read this book and that book, hey, I thought they were supposed to have advice to give besides a reading list. but, I faithfully read every book on their list. Then, when I referenced the books, they were backed into admitting they had never read them themselves, just I supposed the title sounded good, like How to parent the Difficult child, or something like that. Guess I'm supposed to do the therapy myself by reading a bunch of books, then pay them for it!
Everyone keeps saying go to counseling, but counseling doesn't do any good. of course, the answer is, go to another counselor, or more counseling, etc. a person can't be expected to spend their lives in counseling, and it was interferring with our jobs, etc. we were told to "just tell your employer you need time off for counseling" Sure, like that will go over. In this economy, a job isn't something to play with. Oh, but it will make you a better person---well, how, when? a person can't just give up their lives to run to counseling, especially when the counselor doesn't have a clue what they're talking about, anyways.
My advie to OP is, sounds like you've found a way to get your meds, try to keep up with that. Sometimes there's comminty-based free counseling, try to see what you can do with that, if you haven't, already. Read books on your own, find a friend to talk to. Sometimes you have to step away from your problems, find some sort of outside interest, hobby, if you have the time and money. Hang in there, it will work out!
I'm not too sure what you're trying to say, but I do understand your frustration with the "book-learned' counselors.
My advie to OP is, sounds like you've found a way to get your meds, try to keep up with that. Sometimes there's comminty-based free counseling, try to see what you can do with that, if you haven't, already. Read books on your own, find a friend to talk to. Sometimes you have to step away from your problems, find some sort of outside interest, hobby, if you have the time and money. Hang in there, it will work out!
I'm just saying that one cannot possibly know what the 'feelings' of who they're 'helping' are without having 'been there'. They have no clue what it means or how it feels to be addicted, depressed, bi-polar, etc. IMO the only people qualified to be in any specific counseling position, are those that have lived it and survived. And of course, rehabilitated successfully.
Thank you very much for the positive advice. I SO know who and what I am and what I stand for. Things are slowly getting better and back to the way they were before the recession/depression hit.
No matter where you are, it's where you're supposed to be.
I think there is a definite advantage, especially in the field of addictions, for counselors who have truly been there, done that.
But the reality is, if it were required for a counselor to have personal experience with the issue the patient faces, there would be an enormous shortage of counselors. Not everyone who has experienced a particular concern, is then able and appropriate to help others. Take into consideration, for example, sex offenders. It's difficult for sex offenders to rehabilitate, and to find a rehabilitated sex offender who understands the techniques to help someone else overcome their basic instincts would be very unlikely. Another concern is that in most (if not all states) someone providing professional counseling must have a college degree and licensure or certification. In some areas of concern, like drug addition, many recovered addicts have criminal backgrounds that will make it difficult or impossible to get into school, into internships, and then eligible for licensure and liability insurance because of their criminal record.
A good counselor should have an understanding of what a patient is going through (addiction, depression, whatever the case may be), but more importantly, should be familiar with proven techniques to help someone change behavior and/or increase coping skills.
It sounds like what you are looking for, might be found in a support group, rather than in professional counseling.
Best of luck.
I think there is a definite advantage, especially in the field of addictions, for counselors who have truly been there, done that.
But the reality is, if it were required for a counselor to have personal experience with the issue the patient faces, there would be an enormous shortage of counselors. Not everyone who has experienced a particular concern, is then able and appropriate to help others. Take into consideration, for example, sex offenders. It's difficult for sex offenders to rehabilitate, and to find a rehabilitated sex offender who understands the techniques to help someone else overcome their basic instincts would be very unlikely. Another concern is that in most (if not all states) someone providing professional counseling must have a college degree and licensure or certification. In some areas of concern, like drug addition, many recovered addicts have criminal backgrounds that will make it difficult or impossible to get into school, into internships, and then eligible for licensure and liability insurance because of their criminal record.
A good counselor should have an understanding of what a patient is going through (addiction, depression, whatever the case may be), but more importantly, should be familiar with proven techniques to help someone change behavior and/or increase coping skills.
It sounds like what you are looking for, might be found in a support group, rather than in professional counseling.
Best of luck.
You're knocking at the wrong door. Not all criminal activity is bad enough to keep people from deserving to learn the tactics and patience of 'helping' people after experiencing it themselves.
The example of sex offenders is way off base. It's already known that sex offenders cannot be rehabilitated...
3. Sex offenders need psychiatric care, not rehabilitation. Study after study has shown that sex offenders will almost always re-offend. We’re wasting our time and money teaching them a trade. I’m not saying society should ignore sex-offenders — we should concentrate on giving them the psychiatric care that can affect their future behavior.
It sounds like what you are looking for, might be found in a support group, rather than in professional counseling.
Best of luck.
People crack me up. I'm not looking for anything. I'd like to be able to assist the people looking to talk to someone in the areas in which I've experienced without bias. There is absolutely too much bias in book reading only. My wife recently told me she couldn't talk to her counselor anymore because 'she hasn't been there'. She would like to speak with someone who is bi-polar, along with a few other experiences, that has had the same EXPERIENCE.
I don't need luck. I have determination. My step daughter told my wife the other day that, "When Brad sets his mind to do something, it gets done. That's nice to see". She's very observant.
So if you get breast cancer, you will only gop to a breast cancer survivor? If you get schizophrenia, you will only go to a schizophrenic doctor? Ridiculous!
I like the description of recovery given by the "Three Views of Recovery" blog and it describes the "Conversion Experience View", the "Re-Socialization View", and the "Psychological View".
In the Conversion method, you're looking for a source of power outside of yourself to tap into in order to solve your problem. This method is the A.A. approach. It's about coming to terms that your alcoholism is beyond your ability to reason your way out of it. If you can do something besides accept spiritual help and an entire personality change... a change from the inside out... then do it! Get off the bus right now and "just don't drink" and/or "just don't drug." But if that's not working for you, then... it's worth a shot. Some people have no problem seeking the Power of God, yet ... it hasn't seemed to have done much for their drinking/drug problem to date. Some refuse to look for God's help and some are quite sure there is not God and that's that. Well, all this A.A. approach asks is that you open the door to willingness... to a new altruistic and practical experience with this God. You do your part, and God does God's part. If you decide "in", then you are now responsible for your own recovery and you hopefully find a guide or group to show you how to do steps, namely 4 through 9, then you go on and live 10, 11, and 12 and you're good to go and may be in a position to help other drunks.
In the Re-Socialization View, you're more of a "Meeting Makers Make It" kind of person and get your hope and sanity from just going to meetings and picking up the nifty slogans. You like to not be tied down to any schedule or program and may even do other service work like making coffee, giving rides to people who need to, set up committees for other activities, maybe even getting active at the local, regional or national recovery scene. You are more interested in the fellowship of the meetings and not so much in the program, the book, the steps, etc. You don't seem to need to seek God and do steps to get and stay sober. There are some like this in the rooms and it's important to find out if you're one or not.
In the Psychological View, they believe that alcoholism/drug addiction is brought on by some kind of childhood trauma or a masking of pain. They are looking to diagnose some kind of behavioral disorder into some kind of category and they do look for some kind of medicine to alleviate the symptoms or some kind of therapy. This is your professional class. They may one day find a pill that will help the alcoholic/addict. It may already be upon us. I'm not personally interested because I've found entire abstinence to be the way and got there with the Conversion approach.
There again, if you can seek therapy and get over your alcoholism/addiction, do it. But if that doesn't work, it seems of interest to find those who have conquered their situation and find out what they've done.
I don't need other alcoholics to keep me sober. I've done a set of steps and do them yearly and the payoff is simply this; I don't want to drink booze or get high... and so I don't. I try to help the new drunk or the suffering old-timer where I can and where they are willing to accept help.
If a drunk wants booze, I believe that's their business. If booze takes them to a place or "lucid interval", then I can talk to them.
Like another poster said, shouldn't these exhaulted counselors have some advice to give? Besides read this and that book, when they haven't read it themselves.
We have many problems with our ds, have run him to many counselors over the years. All they do is tell me to read books, they NEVER once have offered one bit of advice, not one single thing.
All they say is you need to find you own solutions. Well then WTF am I doing there, spending my time and money to be handed a reading list!
You do realize that you're taking meds from a doctor who probably hasn't shared your particular symptoms? Dispensed by a pharmacist with the same faults?
BTW - in your initial post you stated
Quote:
...Since I've never been, nor will be married...
Yet in your next reply you mention your wife. Did I misread this?
Counselors learn from a wide range of sources. Books are one source, of course, but far more knowledge is gained from course work, supervision, training seminars, and education they receive from clients. Read that last one again. A substance abuse counselor who has never been addicted to cocaine will strive to learn what it is like to be an addict by treating clients who have had this problem. This does not substitute for actual experience, but it does put the therapist in a position to help others down the road. After a counselor has learned from a few dozen cocaine addicts, he or she is far more skilled, and can thus do a better job of helping others down the road. I know a psychiatrist who works particularly well with combat veterans, because he graduated from West Point and served a tour Vietnam. He has never had ADHD, but is nonetheless very skilled in treating this disorder, and many other disorders. He has over 100,000 patient visits over 30+ years of practice, and has seen well over 10,000 individual clients. Over the years, his clients have taught him what it like to have dozens of serious mental illnesses. He uses this education to substitute for real-life experience.
A previous poster made an excellent point. If only a therapist with a history of substance abuse could treat individuals with addictions, the vast majority of people with addictive disorders would never be able to find a therapist. Likewise, no therapist could possible make a living if he or she were only limited to treating disorders that he or she has personally been diagnosed with previously.
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, only to have him attempt to turn what I went in for into what HIS perceptions of what my 'troubles' are. I guess based upon what he's READ. I lasted three sessions. What an idiot. (I went to a doctor and told him what my previous med was and am now taking it again) There is nothing quite as irritating than listening to someone that undoubtedly hasn't a clue of what they're saying, but wants you to believe they do. These people are known as 'know-it-alls'. 
