The concept of 'hope' (trigger, problems, child, long)

[Doll Eyes]

Originally Posted by TracySam

That's a perfect example of someone low on "agency thinking."

"I might have a goal, but it's really just a random crap shoot as to whether I'll ever reach it, and I have little or no power to make it happen."

Not a criticism, just an observation.

what the heck is 'agency thinking?'

and no contrary to popular belief, not everyone can 'make things happen' simply because they want them to.

[Doll Eyes]

edit: whoever left that rep comment about 'please turn to God' needs to join the rest of us here on Earth, LOL. Turning to God has helped me accomplish absolutely nothing up to this point, so why should I bother to keep 'turning to God' when I am no more in a better position then I was before? Right, there's is no point. Unless he plans on aiding me directly in my struggles with mental illness and in life, which has yet to happen, it's a waste of time. I may as well keep going it on my own.

[imcurious]

I didn't leave that comment, and this is not a religious forum, so I will only say that I have found that even if you do not "believe" and have been disappointed, it's possible that you could receive comfort from a higher power by simply asking and surrendering - it is highly personal so I understand if you feel this is not for you.

Do you have a diagnosis? If so, do you mind sharing it?

It does sound like you are very angry - have you tried any methods of working on anger and resentment? There are many resources and techniques you might try. I am holding out "hope" for you!

[Ro2113]

Originally Posted by spinx

What do you lose by being hopeful?

The possibility of disappointment and being let down. If everything people hoped for happened than it would be easier to have hope.

(Especially the things we are emotionally invested in.)

[imcurious]

Originally Posted by Ro2113

The possibility of disappointment and being let down. If everything people hoped for happened than it would be easier to have hope.

(Especially the things we are emotionally invested in.)

That's why it would be smart to educate yourself about the three components, which boost your chances, described above. It's not just random - you have to have the idea, take steps to achieve it, and then whatever the last thing is

[todd00]

People with true severe clinical depression can have trouble even getting up and dressed by 4pm. This doesn't mean they aren't grateful life isnt even worse or understand others face hardships worse than their own. I know people in a 3rd world country, I know how hard life is there. Does this make my depression go away, no because this is more than a case of the blues I have, this has been a long battle. I do think its beneficial to try and help others and I do that myself.

As far as hope goes, if people didn't have a bit of it, even if they don't recognize it, they would just no longer keep going on. Sure I can hope I win the lotto, probably a pretty small chance of that wish/hope happening. Like people have said it depends what you are hoping for. Hoping for a new job, well that takes some effort and some luck too these days. Hoping to find love, that takes some effort and luck as well. Situational stuff can paralyze ones hopes and keep ya stuck and feeling trapped. That I think is the most frustrating part for me through it all.

To the OP, What were you hoping for?

[TracySam]

Originally Posted by Doll Eyes

what the heck is 'agency thinking?'

and no contrary to popular belief, not everyone can 'make things happen' simply because they want them to.

See my lengthy post above for the definitions.

[dreamofmonterey]

Originally Posted by todd00

People with true severe clinical depression can have trouble even getting up and dressed by 4pm. This doesn't mean they aren't grateful life isnt even worse or understand others face hardships worse than their own. I know people in a 3rd world country, I know how hard life is there. Does this make my depression go away, no because this is more than a case of the blues I have, this has been a long battle. I do think its beneficial to try and help others and I do that myself.

As far as hope goes, if people didn't have a bit of it, even if they don't recognize it, they would just no longer keep going on. Sure I can hope I win the lotto, probably a pretty small chance of that wish/hope happening. Like people have said it depends what you are hoping for. Hoping for a new job, well that takes some effort and some luck too these days. Hoping to find love, that takes some effort and luck as well. Situational stuff can paralyze ones hopes and keep ya stuck and feeling trapped. That I think is the most frustrating part for me through it all.

To the OP, What were you hoping for?

Not sure but I think it was general, like people are drunk on hope and saying rainbows and unicorns will cure depression.

At least no one offered help by saying "take a walk around the block". lol.

The depression thread here was good that MightyQueen started. But someone claiming to be a "therapist" posted nasty condescending remarks. She is not a therapist either.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by TracySam

There is actually a whole approach to studying Hope scientifically. From what I've read, the most difficult thing to get past is to come up with a agreed-upon operational definition of "hope."

A psychologist named C. R. Snyder came up with a definition in 1994 that could actually be measured via a questionnaire, with each question researched for validity and reliability, and then studied, to see if higher "hope scores" correlated with higher success in therapy, or in achieving identified life goals.

His definition includes 3 prongs, three types of thoughts that when present together constitute "hope": Goal thinking, Pathways thinking, and Agency thinking.

"Goals thinking" refers to the ability to identify an endpoint you'd like to reach, and reaching such an endpoint is associated with positive emotions. People vary in their ability to identify and set goals, and in whether they set very big, more realistic, or very small goals. If you've ever talked with a severely depressed person, you've probably encountered someone who can't even think-up a simple goal for the future, not for next year, not even for 10 minutes from now. that person would score very low on the hope scale.

"Pathways thinking" refers to the ability to identify routes toward a person's goals. If someone can identify a future goal, but can't identify any steps toward pursuing that goal, the person may not score very high on "hope." You have to not only have a goal (or goals) for the future, but have some idea about how to go after them, or you won't be very "hopeful." If you'ver ever met a person in a manic episode, they have all kinds of extremely ambitious goals, but they lack the problem solving and planning ability to come up with a pathway toward pursuing any of those goals.

"Agency thinking" refers to a belief that accomplishing the goal is possible. It is often connected with a person's "self esteem" or other concepts that involve faith on oneself, and/or perhaps faith in a guiding higher-power. A realistic kind of agency thinking is connected to realistically recognizing one's own abilities, past accomplishments, and talents. Someone who is in a delusional state may have very high, unrealistic, ideas about his ability to reach a goal, but this doesn't qualify as "hope" according to Snyder's definition. I also think that people who have had their self-esteems artifically inflated by parents, teachers, etc, with it not being based on any actual talents or accomplishments (i.e. participation trophies), will be empty with regard to agency-thinking.

It's really interesting stuff if you'd like to look into it. I don't have the original books or journal articles with me, but I'm sure if you look up "hope" and "snyder" you'll find lots of original resources.

To me the important thing is that "hope" can't just be defined with empty optimism. To be true "hope" it needs to be based on a goal or goals ("hope for what?), one or more actual realistic plans to pursue that goal, and real-world abilities, accomplishments, or talents that will make the pursuit and accomplishment of the goal possible. Real Hope has to have a foundation in something.

Snyder and his colleagues actually came up with a measurement instrument that measures how much hope a person has at either a given point in time (your "state" of hope) or overall, throughout one's life (your "trait" of hope).

People in my field (community mental health) can then try out different approaches with clients, and measure whether having more hope or less hope is associated with more or less success in treatment. We can also measure someone's level of "hope" before a treatment approach begins, during the treatment, and after the completion fo the treatment, and see if the approach actually helped to raise a person's measurable "hope."

Have there been any measurable results published anywhere, TracySam?

[todd00]

This bit of brilliance is from an article by C.R. Snyder. "Persons who are higher in hope consistently have displayed more beneficial outcomes in a variety of life arenas". I didn't really think much of this article.

Approaching Hope | SGI Quarterly

Hope on any given day can be different for anyone, for those "normal folks" and the seriously depressed. Give a person the hope test after a bad week at the office and you might find they really do lack self-esteem and confidence and are generally lacking in hope. The next week the same person may land a big deal and score high on the scale of hope. So hope can vary greatly in all of us, depending on the moment. That's true in relationships, ones career, ones health, family life, etc.

Another article. What is hope and how can we measure it?