The concept of 'hope' (alcoholic, cost, body, make)

[brightdoglover]

Thank you for the exposition on the meaning of hope in the holiday observance. I am glad that holding it in your mind that way helps you. I suppose I could easily see it the same way as a spring observance, like you say, things growing and coming out of te deep freeze. As an atheist who pays way too much attention to suffering in the world, I am always too aware of the inequities of life and how people live in other places, and don't find one spring day to help me with the pain of that. I do wish people would pay attention and act all 365 days of the year.
I know you are not proselytizing, and I appreciate your courtesy with your explanation.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by brightdoglover

Thank you for the exposition on the meaning of hope in the holiday observance. I am glad that holding it in your mind that way helps you. I suppose I could easily see it the same way as a spring observance, like you say, things growing and coming out of te deep freeze. As an atheist who pays way too much attention to suffering in the world, I am always too aware of the inequities of life and how people live in other places, and don't find one spring day to help me with the pain of that. I do wish people would pay attention and act all 365 days of the year.
I know you are not proselytizing, and I appreciate your courtesy with your explanation.

You are welcome, brightdoglover. I have seen you on the Atheist forum (which often has some good discussions), and it's always nice to find a few people of different faiths/no faith with whom one can have respectful and interesting discussions.

I wish the same as you do (bolded), and I too am all too aware of the suffering in this world. I've not thought of it this way before, but perhaps that's a reason I try to have some semblance of a spiritual life--to counterbalance in my mind all that is wrong and seems so hopeless with humanity. There's a quotation out there somewhere about the phenomenon of our species having the ability to create magnificent works of art as well as the ability to constantly seek new and more efficient ways to kill one another. There's some ridiculous part of me steeped in grandiosity that wants to fix that, but I know I can't.

[dreamofmonterey]

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

Oh, thank you for saying that. I attended Al-Anon meetings for a short time after I had my husband taken out by the cops. They all seemed like a bunch of doomed sheep resigned to their fates, and spending hours examining themselves to see where their faults were--which in one way is correct, but it should be "Why did I ALLOW this person to cause me so much harm?" Instead, their theme is "What is wrong with me for getting angry when the abusive alkie just has a little ol' disease?"

Yes. "fake it til you make it" was what alot of parents who had their 35 year old "kids", unemployed addicts living at home with them would talk about...it was even more cause for depression!. It is a form of denial and enabling.

That said hope in general is a good thing if one finds it on their own, it sometimes comes as an epiphany. I dislike psycho-babble and quacks in the media.

Some posters here in genuine crisis should find a person they trust to confide in. TOO many snarky comments for those in serious PTSD or depresssion here, this causes more harm than good.

At a relatives funeral 28 years ago a neighbor said "God opens one door and closes another" I felt like slapping her. I would never minimize someones grief, and neither would a good therapist or true friend.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey

Yes. "fake it til you make it" was what alot of parents who had their 35 year old "kids", unemployed addicts living at home with them would talk about...it was even more cause for depression!. It is a form of denial and enabling.

That said hope in general is a good thing if one finds it on their own, it sometimes comes as an epiphany. I dislike psycho-babble and quacks in the media.

Some posters here in genuine crisis should find a person they trust to confide in. TOO many snarky comments for those in serious PTSD or depresssion here, this causes more harm than good.

At a relatives funeral 28 years ago a neighbor said "God opens one door and closes another" I felt like slapping her. I would never minimize someones grief, and neither would a good therapist or true friend.

Ugh, yes, hate those cliches. Another one I despise is "keep your chin up". If you can"t say anything more intelligent or compassionate than that, just ****.

[dreamofmonterey]

"roll with the punches". [stupid expression also] lol.

I agree MQ. Sometimes silence is better than platitudes.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by jaijai

You want to understand hope from a rational perspective and your therapist tries to convince you using reason and logic. I imagine that she does so because you're quite logically/rationally oriented? That's an approach, although..

And an example of a therapist who has totally missed his/her client. That approach would make anyone give up hope. (I realize that was your point.)

Remember the Emily Dickinson poem? She expressed hope by using a bird as a metaphor. When I've felt hopeless, I've thought of the last four lines of her poem.
"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune--without the words,
And never stops at all,
And sweetest in the gale is heard;
And sore must be the storm
That could abash the little bird
That kept so many warm.
I've heard it in the chillest land,
And on the strangest sea;
Yet, never, in extremity,
It asked a crumb of me."

[CArizona]

Great posts!...Years ago I had a friend who was married to a man who could be verbally and emotionally abusive at times. My friend was extremely religious. And she relied on prayers and a "pollyanna" attitude and "hope" to "get by!"... She was sure that "being nice" all the time and all her prayers to God and Jesus would eventually make her husband change...But her husband didn't change. His abusive behavior grew worse and worse as time wore on...My friend kept "turning the other cheek" and stayed "hopeful" and prayed and prayed day and night...She started living in a strange "fantasy world" and had signs of becoming mentally ill. It was sad!....Yet she kept insisting that she was "right" to "hope" and believe and trust that God and Jesus would "transform" her husband before long...I'm all for "having hope" but "hope alone" or "prayers alone" aren't always enough! Sometimes we have to take the "bull" by the "horns" and get down to the "nitty-gritty" when it comes to solving problems in our life. Don't you think?

[dreamofmonterey]

I agree hope can be good if someone can find it.

But you can't change or heal others with it. This is the fallacy of Al-anon. Dont want to hijack the thread though.

[CArizona]

dreamofmonterey...I've never been to any Al-Anon group meetings..What are they like? I guess they try to give people "hope" that their loved ones will eventually stop drinking. Right? Or is it more about "coping skills?"...Thanks! Just curious.

[brightdoglover]

Absolutely not "hope that loved ones will stop drinking." How to separate one's self from that other person's self or need to fix/cure the person or enable, how to minimize the damage to oneself and others by life with this person (assuming they can't or won't cut ties).
The "hope" post about someone with religious "hope" is a whole 'nother topic. I'm not a believer, and have always found the idea that praying for something will help (never mind offer "hope") to be absurd. If a person finds that religion tells him/her to stay in abusive situations, that religion is a poor crutch to stop any change. Change is always difficult, and such a situation or dictate has nothing to do with hope. Humble opinion, etc.