Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
With the aftermath of this, whether she was a saintly mother or a mother that could have possibly prevented this, she will have no choice but to sell her house, pack up and relocate to another part of the country and assume a new identity. The potential, and expected, harrassment will become unendurable.
I knew the mother of a son with PTSD (having returned from Iraq) that killed 4 people in a grocery store in Las Vegas, 10 years ago, she was innocent, from all I could gather. Front that and that alone, she had to flee the state to avoid the harrassment.
Huh? The mother is dead. She was his first victim.
My only question concerning the mother is why the guns? I know people who collect them and shoot them and I don't think any of them are going to shoot up a school or anywhere else, but I don't think they'd take someone like the son out and teach him how to use a semi automatic rifle either. Where she stored the guns could be in a safe where he had to get the key from her, nobody is saying, but he did kill her first. I believe that was with a hand gun.
But as far as her not finding a way to control him, and maybe just getting so tired of it, a friend of mine was raising her grandson. His mother was an alcholic and went into a coma from the birth, and never came out of it. He has severe ADHD problems. I used to take them to a play area and there could be *no* allowences for being excited, having a soda for him. She tried. But he was developmentally delayed in some ways, but smart. He wasn't fully tested but I don't think he really understood empathy at all.
She tried to get counseling, but it didn't help and she couldn't afford it on her own. He was on meds, but didn't eat and had to be taken off them. He was in his early teens, and started getting destructive too. He had hidden catches of porn. He'd leave for the bus and she'd see him in line as it opened its door, but he'd slip away. She didn't know until the school called her and he hadn't arrived for almost two weeks.
He got worse as he got older, and she tried to get him in some sort of program for troubled kids, but he hadn't commited a crime so he didn't qualify.
I don't know what happened to him. He'd be in his mid twenties now, and could be in jail or drugged out but I doubt he'd doing anything productive. But it destroyed her, wore her down, bit by bit, and gradually she stopped trying so hard. Even a cop escourting him to schood didn't work as he'd 'slip out' between classes. Last I saw her, she was drowning her sorrow in drink, and he was old enough they just counted him as a dropout. I know as he got older and more out of control, and his behavior got more abupt, she was afraid of him losing control, and maybe this made her back away. But she also felt guilt about failing.
There was really nobody out there to help since he fell through the cracks. Maybe nobody could have, but if he did go and do something bad, I would never blame her. She, too, was a victum.
She wouldn't have had a rifle in his grasp, which is the thing I do question about the mother in the shootings. But then, I know those who shoot for recreation see it as a way to relax, and maybe she did too. Everyone can have a blind spot. Her's was far worse and much more risky than the parents who try martial arts for kids who are too agressive, and instead of self discipline, get better intimidation. But similar in the kind of choice.
But I pity any family where a child is unstable and out of control where unless your lucky, the system doesn't even see. Long before he killed her she was already his first victum.
I have to say that I totally agree with you nitebird47, let's not forget about the fact that Nancy is her son's first victim. Like I said, it is always tempting to blame somebody by using perfect hindsight, it is always easy to say, "Look, here is the warning sign, why are you so naive." Point is we did not know what happened in that household.Unless we walked a mile in her shoes, we have absolutely no rights judging her. Let's get real here, if she could have predicted what just happened , she wouldn't be dead right now. I can certainly understand the anger, but fact is fact. This is an upper middle class family which has absolutely no financial troubles, and if you guys think divorce is the trigger of his evil behavior, You are certainly misinformed. I believe this family has taught their sons moral, and had dreams and expectations towards them. What has gone wrong? They are also asking why.
Not trying to offend anybody, but media right now blames the violent video games or violent American culture, but seriously, I know somebody who plays violent video games every single day, he is almost 50 years old, never had a girlfriend, he also is a gun lover. He fits every single profile of next mass murder, but he is also the nicest person I've ever known. He never suffered from any type of mental illness. He is just shy.
Is it even fair to say that somebody have an extensive porn collection will be the next rapist or child molester, is it even fair to say that somebody love extreme sports must have a suicidal tendency. Who is the tickling time bomb, who is not?Where do you draw the line?!
To me, it is always the chicken and egg question. Gun law debates is like beating the dead horse. I can see both sides. Both sides make valid points. However, Gun did not drive itself to that school and sent all these babes to grave for christmas, Could it please be that Adam Lanza was just plain evil, and obviously evil loves violence, hence the video game?
Can violent video games really "cause" or "made" somebody crazy? Some experts say that there is absolutely no link between violent video game and mass murder, But some experts say that constant exposure of violence will alter brain chemistry. I guess this is another mystery will never be solved.
Last time I watched the news, it says Adam Lanza disaplayed social deviant behaviors ever since he was five years old. So it is obvious to me that violent video games did not "cause" the problem, I highly doubt he started watching video games since he was five years old. Let's also not forget about the fact that Nancy the mother always adored art, how come Adam Lanza never related to his mother through Art? Art is very healing and comforting. To a lot of people, Art creates excellent bonding opportunity with kids. But unfortunatley, Adam Lanza never really appreciated Art, he chose violence.
All evidences have shown that he is an evil doer. To deny evil exist is burying head in the sand. You would have to be overly optimistic if you believe a magic pill is the solution for somebody like Adam Lanza. He could never have been cured.
No fundamental changes = kids die. first and foremost, let's blame the evil doer, in this case, it is Lanza. Not his mom, not his other family members. It is HIM.
In a single mundane dream (not even a wild one, let alone the wildest), she could have predicted that her mentally unstable son, with access and instruction on using an assault weapon, might possibly do something mentally unstable WITH an assault weapon. That's not 20/20 hindsight. That's a perfectly reasonable expectation of a mentally unstable person with access to multiple assault weapons, AND training on how to use them.
Right on. Nancy Lanza was guilty of criminal negligence at the very LEAST. She paid the ultimate price for her irresponsible gun ownership. It's just a crying shame that other innocent families and individuals also had to pay the price.
She used the worst judgment imaginable when it came to guns and her son.
In our family, we have a 19 year old son. He is perfectly stable mentally and emotionally. However, we don't know all his friends. We also have seven grandchildren who visit regularly.
Therefore, we have all our guns LOCKED IN A SAFE. The combination is LOCKED IN OUR SAFE DEPOSIT BOX at the bank. My husband and I have it memorized, not left around for anyone else to find. No one can get into that safe except for my husband or me.
It's just not that hard to make common sense decisions about guns.
Right on. Nancy Lanza was guilty of criminal negligence at the very LEAST. She paid the ultimate price for her irresponsible gun ownership. It's just a crying shame that other innocent families and individuals also had to pay the price.
She used the worst judgment imaginable when it came to guns and her son.
In our family, we have a 19 year old son. He is perfectly stable mentally and emotionally. However, we don't know all his friends. We also have seven grandchildren who visit regularly.
Therefore, we have all our guns LOCKED IN A SAFE. The combination is LOCKED IN OUR SAFE DEPOSIT BOX at the bank. My husband and I have it memorized, not left around for anyone else to find. No one can get into that safe except for my husband or me.
It's just not that hard to make common sense decisions about guns.
I don't own any guns but those are my thoughts as well. And, do you guys own any deadly assault rifles? Why or why not? Some of this story is just crazy.
It's just not that hard to make common sense decisions about guns.
"common sense" is another phrase people like to throw around. What is "common" anyway?
I am constantly amazed that people always use "In my family I do this..." to justify or condemn other people's behaviors.
Point is, unless you walked a mile in Nancy's shoes, you will have absolutely no ideas what she was dealing with. It is always "tempting" to judge somebody using perfect hindsight. Maybe this is the time to gently remind everybody that "everything is speculation" and NOTHING is as simple as it seems like.
America has viewed Nancy as one of the 27 victims, if you care to remember, she is the number one victim. NOBODY is resposible for other people's behaviors no matter what. I am pretty sure she has done her best with the information she had at the time.
Enough death, enough pain, enough hate in this world. Blame the son, not the mother. Until when, we can finally say "it is time to give the parents a break." Parents have no booklet to follow in term of how to be a "good" parents. If your kid is healthy mentally and physically, consider yourself lucky.
Years ago, a good friend was murdered. My grief therapist suggested, "play some video games will get your anger out. It is therapeutic for you." I followed the advice, and violent video games helped with my anger issue tremendously. But that does not mean other people will benefit from playing violent video games.
WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS.
My common sense tells me that when a person is brutally killed, (without taking anybody with her), offer her prayers and gentle compassion, but for some others, it really doesn't matter she is dead or not, she still needs to be held accountable for others behaviors because she was negligent.
I can understand the anger, and certainly understand the pain and sense of loss. But fact is fact. come on, let's get real here,
"If nancy could have predicted what just happened in her wildest dreams, she would not be DeaD right now." Yes?
Mental health treatment in this country is deplorable. Private insurance does not want to cover it, or sets unreasonable lifetime limits, because it is a sure fire money loser. I apologoze for the metaphor. Care for mental and other chronic illness will send a private individual into bankruptcy quickly.
It's important to remember, when we want to rail against "government", that the government is us. *We* decided that we did not want to fund mental health care. We justified it in a number of ways, but it boils down to money. We saw terrible conditions in some state run institutions, and without asking ourselves why that was, we decided that these individuals would be better off in mainstream society. What the real problem was, and is, was that we never wanted to pay adequately for it. We wanted to keep plodding away with our blinders on and hope the problem would go away. Some state governors got to look like heroes because they cut that from the budget. The population of homeless skyrocketed.
And as always, the weakest among us could not stand up for themselves, and we dismissed the people who stood up for them as bleeding hearts and government employees looking out for themselves. We need to take a good long look in the mirror here. We did this.
We did this partly but I believe most blame rests on the insurance companies who lobbied local and federal agencies to let them off the hook because it is a money loser. Look at the way insurance companies react to non mental but severe but non-lethal chronic conditions, they fight tooth and nail to dump the patient at every opportunity. There are many cracks purposefully built into the system so that many can fall through such as HIPAA laws, group coverage opposed to independent coverage, weak COBRA laws etc.. Money gainers is what the industry wanted and that was HMOs which became very popular soon after mental hospitals were emptied.
"common sense" is another phrase people like to throw around. What is "common" anyway?
If I have to explain common sense to someone, it's a futile effort. But for the sake of argument, I'll clarify for this situation.
"It is COMMON SENSE for a parent to keep guns away from kids and mentally ill people."
Quote:
I am constantly amazed that people always use "In my family I do this..." to justify or condemn other people's behaviors.
I wasn't using my family to justify or condemn anyone. I was using my family as an example of practicing COMMON SENSE when it comes to general gun safety - by keeping our guns away from kids and mentally ill people.
Quote:
Point is, unless you walked a mile in Nancy's shoes, you will have absolutely no ideas what she was dealing with. It is always "tempting" to judge somebody using perfect hindsight. Maybe this is the time to gently remind everybody that "everything is speculation" and NOTHING is as simple as it seems like.
Hey, guess what. I've walked a mile - well, a lifetime - in some shoes that are very similar to Nancy Lanza's shoes. I have a younger brother who is a paranoid schizophrenic with a personality disorder. As a family, we had to have him involuntarily committed. When that was done, we went into his house and confiscated his guns and he will NEVER get them back.
Meanwhile, my father had already taken measures to try to protect our family, and others. He had already made sure that his own guns were locked up, and had already contacted the police department and neighbors to let them know that my brother was mentally unstable and to PLEASE contact our family at the first sign of trouble (my brother was already grown when his mental issues came to light).
Quote:
America has viewed Nancy as one of the 27 victims, if you care to remember, she is the number one victim. NOBODY is resposible for other people's behaviors no matter what. I am pretty sure she has done her best with the information she had at the time.
Bells across the US tolled 26 times this Friday, not 27 times, and for a reason. Nancy Lanza provided the guns used to kill 26 INNOCENT people. Though her death is tragic as well, it was in part HER poor judgment that was a critical factor in this sad case. As I've stated repeatedly on this forum, it is NOT her fault that the mental healthcare system in this country is the mess it's in. It is NOT her fault that her son was probably born with mental issues. However, it IS her fault that she not only left a cache of weapons in her clearly disturbed son's easy reach, but that she also made sure he knew how to use them ALL by training him at a range and encouraging him to use them. That is very poor judgment.
Your statements about not judging someone harshly can be used to justify all sorts of poor parental choices. Can we judge the parent who doesn't restrain their child in a vehicle? Can we judge the parent who has the means to feed a child well but whose child is malnourished? Can we judge the parent who leaves a child at home to go to the store, and the house burns down? Using your "logic" we can't - because we haven't "walked a mile in their shoes."
Quote:
Enough death, enough pain, enough hate in this world. Blame the son, not the mother.
I blame them both, while also feeling some sympathy for the mother. Sympathy doesn't negate her fault in the situation.
Quote:
Until when, we can finally say "it is time to give the parents a break." Parents have no booklet to follow in term of how to be a "good" parents. If your kid is healthy mentally and physically, consider yourself lucky.
See above. It doesn't take a BOOKLET to figure out that it's smarter to keep guns secure when kids and mentally ill people are around.
Quote:
My common sense tells me that when a person is brutally killed, (without taking anybody with her), offer her prayers and gentle compassion, but for some others, it really doesn't matter she is dead or not, she still needs to be held accountable for others behaviors because she was negligent.
I never said to hate on Nancy Lanza. But she WAS negligent. I can feel empathy for her just as I feel empathy for the parent who loses a child in a house fire while they run to the store for diapers. Doesn't change the FACT that they both used poor judgment.
In this case, Nancy Lanza's poor judgment resulted in the murders of 26 people. How would YOU feel if your child had died as the result of one of Nancy's casually placed guns?
Quote:
I can understand the anger, and certainly understand the pain and sense of loss. But fact is fact. come on, let's get real here,
"If nancy could have predicted what just happened in her wildest dreams, she would not be DeaD right now." Yes?
Right - and if Michael Jackson had known his nose would end up sliding off his face, he would not have had all that plastic surgery on it either. Still doesn't make his decisions any more valid or reasonable.
Hence the police advice for us to "Arm ourselves and protect ourselves.".
Yep, this was the advice from the cops after we had a worker fired for threats. He told a co worker that he was going to get a gun and kill him and anyone else who got in his way. He suffers from heath issues and has severe case of blues. Hates his dead father and cant stop talking about him... he is a 55 year old Adam Lanza IMHO
I'm grateful that Liza wrote this but it's sad that a tragic event is what triggered this article to come out. I can relate to Liza because my brother has a mental illness. He hasn't been properly diagnosed but mental illness runs in the family. He has a paranoia issue where he thinks people are out to get him. He thinks certain family members are in this conspiracy against him. If you press the car alarm too many times he will think something is wrong and get mad at you. A car driving the down street could be someone trying to get him. My brother doesn't think he has a mental illness and won't get help. After major tragedies like this school shooting sometimes I wonder thinking my brother could be like Jared Loughner or James Holmes. You never know what is going to tick off a mentally ill person so bad that they would kill innocent kids or strangers in a movie theater.
This article is the perfect example of how the mental health care system is flawed in the USA. Like Michael, since my brother is not a harm to himself or society nothing can be done to help him. He's over 18; my mom can't make him to go a mental hospital to get evaluated. Once you're over 18 its worse because your parents are screwed with no help from the law. My brother’s illness didn't show until after he was 18. We need more parents like Liza who are trying to get their children help before something bad happens. We've got a long way to go in the battle to getting people with mental illness more help. I wish mental illness would stop being such a taboo topic.
Last edited by txmusicgal; 12-24-2012 at 02:25 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
