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Old 08-14-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 9,690,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creek Hollow View Post
This is exactly what I thought reading the OP. How could these coworkers suddenly become switch hitters without ever speaking to the poster.

Were they:

1. Never really friends to be begin with, or very shallow acquaintances?

2. Frightened about whatever they were told?


We have a family member who is a sociopath and were told years ago the best policy was to ignore them NO MATTER WHAT happened. Their reward is the drama they cause and if they receive no reaction whatsoever, their actions will be non rewarding. It took YEARS, but it worked.
The sociopath was the boss. The employees in many companies just kiss the behind of the boss, no matter what, afraid for their own jobs. When the boss ostracizes someone the rest follow suit, just grateful that it's not them. People at work are more loyal to keeping their jobs than to each other. Relationships are often formed for mutual convenience, not for genuine friendship.
The OP's mistake is that she mistook the work environment and the people surrounding her as a genuine one where people formed actual friendships.
In many business environments an employee's salary increases are dependent upon making the boss look good and not being truthful.
Truthful people rock the boat and are not to be trusted. They open their mouths at the wrong time to the wrong people.
I think the OP may have been slated to be 'out' by the boss and she let people know that, so they all just avoided her, knowing the unpleasantness that was forthcoming and not wanting to be associated with a targeted person.
This can happen when an employee is too old or underperforms or has been around too long and is pulling too large a salary or who cannot adapt to new technology, or just rubs the boss the wrong way. Yup, the mere fact that you're alive might distress some wacko boss enough to off you.
Companies, especially in rough economic times, can be brutal.
As employees we are not so far away from slaves. We can be fired pretty much without a good reason unless we are in a group specifically protected by law. People have been fired for what they do in off hours, like a female member of a law firm who was also a pole dancer in a club. People have been fired for mouthing off their political views, or for not attending church.
Sometimes all a person can do, if the economy does not allow them to change jobs readily, is to just keep his head down and do your job and don't get involved. Some office politics, though, almost force you to 'join' one group or another.
I know we have all heard abuse stories regarding labor unions, but they arose in the first place due to corporate abuses and now that they are pretty much gone, the abuse rate may rise again. On top of that unions actually created a thriving middle class which lifted the entire country's economy. Well, that's another story.

Last edited by goldengrain; 08-14-2010 at 09:47 PM..
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:33 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
12,187 posts, read 12,693,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
sociopaths?? 2 times. borderline personality disorder? a bunch.
worst part of sociopath is you dont see it coming no body language tone of voice nothing.
they enjoy hurting others and it is done with utter disconnect.
their inner emotions are opposite of what they present.
the big difference is they are not there to be helped they are there to hurt others.
Not always..once they've reached the position of authority they want and don't have to manipulate and have less ppl to answer to, they wont hide who they are, this is when they gain respect thru fear.
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:08 PM
'M'
 
Location: Glendale Country Club
1,456 posts, read 1,489,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
I think the OP may have been slated to be 'out' by the boss and she let people know that, so they all just avoided her, knowing the unpleasantness that was forthcoming and not wanting to be associated with a targeted person.
The actual situation was that no one knew how I felt about the Sociopath, who was a peer employee over a 3 year period. What happened between us was only between us. There were no other people present when we had our discussion. Our job was such that at times we could be isolated from other employees and patients. Before she arrived, I was not a "targeted" person. She is the one who made me her target, as my peer.

Remember it was mentioned earlier that she also made inappropriate sexual comments and asked new employees about their sex lives She was not the brightest bulb in the bunch, but as a manipulater she is a genius.

What she did was to have "visits" with each of the other employees in our department and tell them something horrible that I had done, but which was false and slanderous. She also did this a couple other times to other employees that she felt threatened by when they appeared to be well-liked by our supervisor.

She did this to me because she "figured me out" the way sociopaths do....she figured out my vulnerable spot. She knew that my reputation and peer relationships were both very good, and that this was important to me...so she used that to psychologically tear me down. My supervisor was happy with my work, but she wanted to be right next to the supervisor, so I was an obstacle. She knew that I was well-liked. If you read the books and website, this is what they do. Making herself appear to be victim of 'evil' me. I did hear about a couple of her "visits" when one of our team moved to another department. Other than that, I have no idea what she said, but it must have been horrific, because, suddenly, people would get that deer in the headlights look when they saw me.


Originally Posted by Creek Hollow
This is exactly what I thought reading the OP. How could these coworkers suddenly become switch hitters without ever speaking to the poster.

Were they:

1. Never really friends to be begin with, or very shallow acquaintances?

2. Frightened about whatever they were told?


We have a family member who is a sociopath and were told years ago the best policy was to ignore them NO MATTER WHAT happened. Their reward is the drama they cause and if they receive no reaction whatsoever, their actions will be non rewarding. It took YEARS, but it worked.

The reason that the other employees never came to me is 1). she was training the new employees so she was able to get to them before some of them had ever met me. Part of their training was being asked about their sex lives...a little bit of an ad lib on the sociopath's part. Remember: she is a sociopath. She isn't a normal, nice, kind, genuinely warm and friendly - or professional - person like many of us are. She, as a sociopath, has no conscience. None of us would ever do something like that if we were training new employees. Sociopaths do. Also, our supervisor was gone to meetings most every day, sometimes almost the entire day. She wasn't there to hear how the trainings were conducted. The sup also had already been "seduced" by the sociopath.

2) She was also very good at implicating me in things that I had nothing to do with. It's her nature as a sociopath. The books spell all of this out. The cunning with which she did these things was astonishing. Creek Hollow: As a master manipulator, she was able to do things that no one else could possibly have done...like turn co-workers away from each other...no questions asked.

If this thread accomplishes nothing more than for people who have been victims, it will all be worth it. To read other people's posts and see how they just do not "get" sociopathic behavior is very healing. I "couldn't" get it at all when it first began happening. I went to 3 different therapists to try to understand what was going on. I paid $1,000 of my own money for one therapist because she wasn't eligible for my company's employee assistance and she also wasn't approved for my insurance...she was an outstanding therapist who was more helpful than the other two people I went to. I was trying to stop feeling so crazy with my sociopath's behavior. This is a hallmark of interacting with a sociopath. You feel as if YOU are crazy.

The behavior makes no sense at all. It cannot be understood by the average person who has never had to deal with one. The books mentioned have information about all the twists and turns. So, rather than try to explain this any more....just know that any of this you don't understand? Well, it's because socipathic behavior doesn't make sense and it cannot be understood unless you go to therapy, read, talk about it with others who have gone through the same thing, or decide to get a degree in psychiatry or psychology and study up.

I hope that anyone who's having these same difficulties will get the information that they need on this thread to begin a resolution to their problem. As some of the other wise posters have mentioned, it's best to not get involved with one in any way, shape or fashion. But sometimes it cannot be avoided. In that case, as had been mentioned in previous posts, it's best to not react to them at all. Above all, don't let them know that you know what they are up to. This isn't always feasible if we must work directly with someone and have productive results at work. In this case, we just have to do the best we can and if we are spiritual or religious, we get on our knees and pray a lot. My biggest mistake was to let My Sociopath know I couldn't accept her unprofessional behavior. Today, I would look the other way.

Last edited by 'M'; 08-14-2010 at 11:27 PM..
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:45 PM
 
3,630 posts, read 2,856,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
I've never heard of this. To get any type of advanced degree in counseling--and frankly, the person should not be a "counselor" without at least an MA--they would have to take a personality test (e.g. MMPI, etc) just to get into a grad program. During their education, they would undergo hours of therapy and work in an unpaid practicum position. Once they get their degree, they would be in a supervised internship for X number of hours according to their state. No way could they end up counseling others if they had any sociopathic tendencies themselves. In any other case, they're doing counseling unethically and illegally (or are trainees who will eventually be weeded out).
you are so off base about the qualifications--all that is required is a masters and a brief internship,and passing a written exam for certification--there is NOT a requirment for personality testing OR individual counseling sessions for themselves---AND SO there are many in the field that COULD use their own counseling and are sociopaths (this includes practicing psychiatrists) AND ARE ALMOST NEVER"WEEDED OUT"
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:45 PM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,224 posts, read 2,518,440 times
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Antisocial Personality Disorder (aka sociopath) and Narcissistic Personality Disorder are two very different things. For one thing, a "failed" antisocial personality disorder generally remains antisocial, while a "failed" narcissistic personality disorder usually morphs into a paranoid personality disorder.

As we all know, there are no absolutes in this world. Generally speaking, however, true sociopaths rarely climb very high on the corporate ladder due to one fatal flaw -- the inability to significantly delay or defer gratification in favor of long-term gain. Narcissists, on the other hand, may climb a fair distance up the ladder, largely by moving quickly from positon to position in profession after profession and organization after organization before things begin catching up with them.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:57 PM
 
2,940 posts, read 4,080,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'M' View Post
Didn't seem to be able to find an appropriate category - or a previous thread - regarding my question.

My question is: If you have ever worked with a sociopath, what was your experience?

Some might call this type of person something different, but a sociopath has these characteristics: they have zero conscience are highly manipulative con artists have no feelings/shallow emotions (even with their own children). When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises. are easily bored criminal or entrepreneurial versatility changes their life story readily) unable to feel remorse or guilt incapable of human attachment authoritarian secretive doesn't perceive that anything is wrong with them don't do well in counseling (even related to work...and besides, they can probably con the counselor) poor work ethic but exploits others effectively Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed Pathological Lying...Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis.

If you have interacted with someone in the workplace who has similar characteristics, what was the outcome? How did you deal with this person effectively? Did your interaction with this person change your life? Could you be specific about your experience?
Sociopath, narcissist. Whatever the right term is, they are all around. They are just not that easy to identify. I've seen them in my family, at the workplace and even within circle of friends.

The only way to deal with them effectively is avoid them being in a position of power over you. That is not possible most of the time at the workplace. At the workplace you can either change jobs(and you might get another one, they are quite common in power positions) or you can try avoiding being a target, which is not always possible either, like someone said just breathing could be a reason for them to hate you. Praise them, never contradict them(that's a huge NO-NO) be always positive and ignore them if possible.

Workplaces are a perfect place for these individuals. They love power and know they can get away with many things. Friends will leave them, family will most of the time avoid them but subordinates are a constant source of empowerment. In my opinion the guilty party here is the narcissist's boss that allows them to do whatever they want. Many times their bosses are narcissists themselves.

By the way many of the are not totally evil. They just see the world black and white. It's all about hierarchy.To me once you are on their bad side, they become like animals and block feelings like empathy, compassion, guilt and remorse. Some of them when you are on their good side they are nice individuals. They might help the needy or be good to others with genuine reasons because they see don't see them as a threat. But these people always have to have enemies and targets. Their power to hate is much stronger than their power to love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
Not always..once they've reached the position of authority they want and don't have to manipulate and have less ppl to answer to, they wont hide who they are, this is when they gain respect thru fear.
100% correct
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:49 PM
 
Location: state of procrastination
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I have actually thought very elaborately about doing physical harm to the sociopaths I have been lucky enough to work with. That was how much I hated them. Fortunately for me, they were not very good at what they did, having some traits of insecurity that held them back from reaching their full potential. Thus I did not have to have their blood on my hands.

I also did some pre-emptive strikes on these people to prevent them from spreading rumors about me. For example, lies about my ability, lies about me not coming in to do work, lies about me being disinterested in my work. Once I found out the game they played, I used it against them. I immediately went to everyone and cleared up the rumors, and told them everything bad about the sociopaths - all of which were true. I destabilized their infrastructure from which they did their evil deeds, dropping backhanded negative comments about them to anyone who was in higher positions of power (i.e. I would praise somebody who I actually thought was great, and then contrast it to the bad qualities of the sociopath). I also made it known to the sociopaths that I knew their game. This prevented them from having any future impact on me, and I ended up doing just fine. I also made many implied career threats towards them, to their faces. I also knew that I always had the option to do great bodily injury to them if they ended up ruining my life enough that I no longer cared (luckily never reached that point). The only way to fight a sociopath is by acting like one.

In the end I am sure they thought that I was the sociopath. LOL. But I know I wasn't, because everytime they tried to backstab me, people would come running to me and tell me about it. Thank god I worked with smart people who knew what was up.

We all ended up moving on with our lives. Interestingly, we all ended up advancing our careers. But I'm pretty sure that I was the only one who ended up advancing my personal life... whereas theirs are in shambles. Ha ha ha...

Last edited by miyu; 08-15-2010 at 04:01 PM..
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:15 PM
'M'
 
Location: Glendale Country Club
1,456 posts, read 1,489,732 times
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Here's a huge website that has an incredible amount of info on "bullying" which describes the actions of a "sociopath"...Most people only realize they're being bullied when they read this page; what is bullying, how to recognise bullies and injury to health

If for some reason this link doesn't work, Google "bullyonline"
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
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I came up with a very simple way to combat sociopaths in the workplace: be a sociopath in the workplace. Like they say: if you can't beat em... join em!

I did this after I started working with a girl who was a bona-fide, classic sociopath, and realized after one night where I declined to drive her home, she decided to steamroll me (we'd been totally friendly before this one inconsequential "slight"), so I just beat her at her own game and the end result was that she got fired
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 9,690,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miyu View Post
I have actually thought very elaborately about doing physical harm to the sociopaths I have been lucky enough to work with. That was how much I hated them. Fortunately for me, they were not very good at what they did, having some traits of insecurity that held them back from reaching their full potential. Thus I did not have to have their blood on my hands.

I also did some pre-emptive strikes on these people to prevent them from spreading rumors about me. For example, lies about my ability, lies about me not coming in to do work, lies about me being disinterested in my work. Once I found out the game they played, I used it against them. I immediately went to everyone and cleared up the rumors, and told them everything bad about the sociopaths - all of which were true. I destabilized their infrastructure from which they did their evil deeds, dropping backhanded negative comments about them to anyone who was in higher positions of power (i.e. I would praise somebody who I actually thought was great, and then contrast it to the bad qualities of the sociopath). I also made it known to the sociopaths that I knew their game. This prevented them from having any future impact on me, and I ended up doing just fine. I also made many implied career threats towards them, to their faces. I also knew that I always had the option to do great bodily injury to them if they ended up ruining my life enough that I no longer cared (luckily never reached that point). The only way to fight a sociopath is by acting like one.

In the end I am sure they thought that I was the sociopath. LOL. But I know I wasn't, because everytime they tried to backstab me, people would come running to me and tell me about it. Thank god I worked with smart people who knew what was up.

We all ended up moving on with our lives. Interestingly, we all ended up advancing our careers. But I'm pretty sure that I was the only one who ended up advancing my personal life... whereas theirs are in shambles. Ha ha ha...
Good for you.
Yes, it's good that you worked with savvy people rather than a crowd who all ran around like chicken littles trying to please the tyrant. There is no one they hate more than the person who stands up to them and refuses to pretend to fall for their bs.
I understand how your feelings of hostility can mount to such a horrible extent.
I think when we hear of tragedies on the news we rarely get the full story and a person such as your sociopath could have instigated the trouble. Business does next to nothing to correct such behavior. This is one of the reasons why we had unions once upon a time.
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