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Old 03-13-2012, 05:50 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,385 posts, read 7,800,779 times
Reputation: 8898
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
No, you used no force, that I can see.

I think we must face reality and be logical about things, but I also think we have a responsibility not to add to the misery in the world. I think we should act if we have the capacity to change things for the better, but not if it is for only the satisfaction of personal vengeance.

We make ourselves interesting, I think, by being knowledgeable, helpful, and entertaining, being nasty is just a cheap shot and improves nothing.

None of us is perfect, but we should have ideals of some sort. Standards. We should not sink to the level of those for whom we have little respect.
OK, here's the meanest thing I did to her--I brought in cookies for the whole group when I knew that she was trying to lose weight for her wedding, but I didn't make her eat them. I knew she wouldn't be able to stay out though and every time I turned around she had another cookie in her hand. Fact is I killed her with kindness and that drove her crazy b/c she wanted to see me miserable, but I already was before she started her crap.

I do agree with you about not adding misery to the world though, and I think anyone who knows me well would say I work well with a group and play well with others b/c I believe that it's impossible to be a good teacher if you're not a team player and a school is no place for anyone who is just out for themselves or who are just looking for victims to have power over and I think this woman should get out of education. I'll post some good stuff later about how to deal with these types since I just passed that part in my book.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:15 PM
 
18,870 posts, read 13,526,419 times
Reputation: 24728
The sociopath I worked with was a social worker! She was evik. Control freak. She liked having "power" over people. "I can give you things, or not". Social workers, depoending on their positions in agencies, have a lot of power over people, and their lives. I think that is scary, and I don't believe that file reviews are done enough. The one I worked with was racist, but it was subtle. White folks were definitely given preferential treatment.

She knew I was on to her power games. And she hated me. She trash talked me all the time. She tried to get me fired. She could not, so her next plan was to make my life as miserable as possible. I just don't get mean people. She spent so much energy reviewing my work for flaws, to show the supervisor, she never did her own work! She was loco!
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Old 03-14-2012, 06:17 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,385 posts, read 7,800,779 times
Reputation: 8898
I didn't do it last night, but here goes:

I paraphrased this from the book The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, PhD.

1. You must accept that some people truly have no conscience. It's tough to believe but like I said, 1 in 25. Probably more in some places like corporations or social work--anywhere they have power over peoples' lives.

2. If you are in a subordinate position to the sociopath and they are trying to get you to do something you know is wrong, go with your instincts. Most people will do almost anything if they are told to by someone in authority but you need to realize that many in positions of authority are sociopaths.

3. If you're starting to get into a relationship with someone and they break a date, a promise, or tell a lie 3x, then run away fast. Give them a couple of chances b/c it may be a misunderstanding or something really may have come up but when it gets to be a pattern, it won't get better.

4. Question authority.

5. Suspect flattery. This is a toughie for me b/c my love language is compliments but even I can smell a rat if someone lays it on too thick.

6. Don't mistake fear for respect.

7. If your sociopath at work tries to draw you into a contest, do not play--don't try to outsmart him b/c you can't--you're not mean enough. You need your energy to protect yourself.

8. Avoid this person like the plague.

9. Do not fall into the trap of pitying this person b/c their favorite game is trying to win your pity as they know it will weaken you and then they can get whatever they want out of you.

10. You can't fix this person so don't even try. It's not possible to give someone a conscience.

11. Do not help this person conceal their true character--they cannot know gratitude anyway and will just as quickly turn around and stab you in the back when they get back on their feet and you need to help others protect themselves.

12. Do not let this person mess with your head and tell you that you're just like them--you're not. Humanity is not a waste--all of the violent crimes and wars and all have been started or continued by sociopaths, not real people. Most of us are good people.

13. Living well is the best revenge.

I love that last b/c that's exactly how I'm getting even with mine. I'm even losing weight and have new clothes.

And remember, you have one thing they never can have--a heart. They can take everything else away but don't let them take that. I think that's what goldengrain was trying to say and it's true. A heart can be broken and often is but never be sorry you have one b/c apparently existence is pretty empty without one. That's why they're mean, because they get totally bored and it stimulates them to see people squirm and they think that b/c we can be hurt that it makes us stupid. No, it makes us human.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,630,006 times
Reputation: 8463
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepka View Post
OK, here's the meanest thing I did to her--I brought in cookies for the whole group when I knew that she was trying to lose weight for her wedding, but I didn't make her eat them. I knew she wouldn't be able to stay out though and every time I turned around she had another cookie in her hand. Fact is I killed her with kindness and that drove her crazy b/c she wanted to see me miserable, but I already was before she started her crap.

I do agree with you about not adding misery to the world though, and I think anyone who knows me well would say I work well with a group and play well with others b/c I believe that it's impossible to be a good teacher if you're not a team player and a school is no place for anyone who is just out for themselves or who are just looking for victims to have power over and I think this woman should get out of education. I'll post some good stuff later about how to deal with these types since I just passed that part in my book.
It's amazing how parents expect the teachers to be great role models, sometimes better than the parents, themselves. Teachers are often under appreciated. They see kids in the context of others in their age group and this gives them a certain viewpoint that parents sometimes lack. I do think, though, that there are a few bad apples that need to be weeded out, who ruin it for the rest.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,630,006 times
Reputation: 8463
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
The sociopath I worked with was a social worker! She was evik. Control freak. She liked having "power" over people. "I can give you things, or not". Social workers, depoending on their positions in agencies, have a lot of power over people, and their lives. I think that is scary, and I don't believe that file reviews are done enough. The one I worked with was racist, but it was subtle. White folks were definitely given preferential treatment.

She knew I was on to her power games. And she hated me. She trash talked me all the time. She tried to get me fired. She could not, so her next plan was to make my life as miserable as possible. I just don't get mean people. She spent so much energy reviewing my work for flaws, to show the supervisor, she never did her own work! She was loco!
I'm sorry that you had to go through that.
In my case part of her problem is that she manipulated her little group and I never joined them, not wanting to kiss behinds to get my raises and good ratings. She could not stand an independent person.

Do you think that was part of your situation?

Often a person is treated badly in this way and starts treating others in that manner themselves. That is probably a normal human reaction, but just perpetuates resentments and lack of understanding.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
6,776 posts, read 3,161,440 times
Reputation: 9425
I think perhaps you should concern yourself with your work, and leave the psychoanalysis to the experts. After hours, you might look up the definition of paranoia.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,630,006 times
Reputation: 8463
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepka View Post
I didn't do it last night, but here goes:

I paraphrased this from the book The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, PhD.

1. You must accept that some people truly have no conscience. It's tough to believe but like I said, 1 in 25. Probably more in some places like corporations or social work--anywhere they have power over peoples' lives.

2. If you are in a subordinate position to the sociopath and they are trying to get you to do something you know is wrong, go with your instincts. Most people will do almost anything if they are told to by someone in authority but you need to realize that many in positions of authority are sociopaths.

3. If you're starting to get into a relationship with someone and they break a date, a promise, or tell a lie 3x, then run away fast. Give them a couple of chances b/c it may be a misunderstanding or something really may have come up but when it gets to be a pattern, it won't get better.

4. Question authority.

5. Suspect flattery. This is a toughie for me b/c my love language is compliments but even I can smell a rat if someone lays it on too thick.

6. Don't mistake fear for respect.

7. If your sociopath at work tries to draw you into a contest, do not play--don't try to outsmart him b/c you can't--you're not mean enough. You need your energy to protect yourself.

8. Avoid this person like the plague.

9. Do not fall into the trap of pitying this person b/c their favorite game is trying to win your pity as they know it will weaken you and then they can get whatever they want out of you.

10. You can't fix this person so don't even try. It's not possible to give someone a conscience.

11. Do not help this person conceal their true character--they cannot know gratitude anyway and will just as quickly turn around and stab you in the back when they get back on their feet and you need to help others protect themselves.

12. Do not let this person mess with your head and tell you that you're just like them--you're not. Humanity is not a waste--all of the violent crimes and wars and all have been started or continued by sociopaths, not real people. Most of us are good people.

13. Living well is the best revenge.

I love that last b/c that's exactly how I'm getting even with mine. I'm even losing weight and have new clothes.

And remember, you have one thing they never can have--a heart. They can take everything else away but don't let them take that. I think that's what goldengrain was trying to say and it's true. A heart can be broken and often is but never be sorry you have one b/c apparently existence is pretty empty without one. That's why they're mean, because they get totally bored and it stimulates them to see people squirm and they think that b/c we can be hurt that it makes us stupid. No, it makes us human.
Stepka,
I actually have that book somewhere, but it is in a pile somewhere that I have to eventually shelve.

I am wondering if you remember the author trying to address how these people became that way.

Is something missing organically? Is it a situation of an unexpressed gene that can be activated by the environment?

I probably read too much sci-fi when I was a kid, but just because some people look human, could they not be? I mean, if religions(most) are right and we are souls that animate our bodies, could there be something not quite like the rest of us that just slipped in?

Ok, stop laughing.
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:35 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,385 posts, read 7,800,779 times
Reputation: 8898
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Stepka,
I actually have that book somewhere, but it is in a pile somewhere that I have to eventually shelve.

I am wondering if you remember the author trying to address how these people became that way.

Is something missing organically? Is it a situation of an unexpressed gene that can be activated by the environment?

I probably read too much sci-fi when I was a kid, but just because some people look human, could they not be? I mean, if religions(most) are right and we are souls that animate our bodies, could there be something not quite like the rest of us that just slipped in?

Ok, stop laughing.
Not laughing b/c I've had similar thoughts. She did mention possibilities for why people could be this way and it mainly comes down to internal wiring. But of course it's that old nature/nurture debate, and while your genetics may very well determine these things, the way you were raised will determine how badly you acted out on it. I mean, you can love and love on a child but if they don't have a conscience and are unable to love you back, what difference will it make? But it might make the difference between someone who stabs you in the back at work and someone who stabs you in the back in a dark alleyway.

She spent as much time speculating about why the rest of us do have a conscience and presented some possible evolutionary reasons for that, such as the fact that we are a social animal and a conscience is what helps us bond to a group and we're more likely to survive as a group than as individuals since we're defenseless otherwise. Another thing she talked about is that the one thing that will override the conscience of most people is obedience to authority and that also probably had survival implications except that many people who have been in positions of authority have been (and are) sociopaths. So, if you take the double whammy of: the majority of people will follow a strong leader and some strong leaders are sociopaths, it's easy to see why mankind looks pretty evil, but in fact most of us are not. Most of us will deliberately miss the mark if we are required to shoot an enemy in war unless there is a strong leader there urging them on.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:07 AM
 
4,714 posts, read 2,558,637 times
Reputation: 2558
had my life profoundly changed by a workplace bully , dont know if they were a sociopath or not , it was a female supervisor which made things worse

i suffered post traumatic stress as a result and ive never been the same since , the nature of the abuse was rooted in charechter assasination , projection , amatuer psychoanalysis and false reports about what others thought and said about me , thier is nothing more malevolent than a part time shrink advising you to seek therapy , its a way of undermining your mental capacity and sowing seeds of doubt in your mind as to your concept of reality , i myself bought into theese false appraisals for a while and set about fanatically analysing myself to see what was wrong with me , as i said , false appraisals which seduce someone into thinking they have problems they dont is extremly dangerous , it creates a self fulfilling prophecy where a perfectly healthy minded person is bombarded with verbal attacks and negative judgements and eventually they become psychologically damaged and come to possess theese very psychological problems which were originally alledged falsely

long story short , i thought i could tough things out with my bully - narcisist - whatever , was twenty and full of ego and male pride , wasnt going to give in , worst thing i ever did , some people are inherently wired wrong in the head and see thier toxic behaviour as not only acceptable but as beneficial to others , its a truly extrordinary mindset , run a mile , thats all you can do
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:30 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,385 posts, read 7,800,779 times
Reputation: 8898
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
had my life profoundly changed by a workplace bully , dont know if they were a sociopath or not , it was a female supervisor which made things worse

i suffered post traumatic stress as a result and ive never been the same since , the nature of the abuse was rooted in charechter assasination , projection , amatuer psychoanalysis and false reports about what others thought and said about me , thier is nothing more malevolent than a part time shrink advising you to seek therapy , its a way of undermining your mental capacity and sowing seeds of doubt in your mind as to your concept of reality , i myself bought into theese false appraisals for a while and set about fanatically analysing myself to see what was wrong with me , as i said , false appraisals which seduce someone into thinking they have problems they dont is extremly dangerous , it creates a self fulfilling prophecy where a perfectly healthy minded person is bombarded with verbal attacks and negative judgements and eventually they become psychologically damaged and come to possess theese very psychological problems which were originally alledged falsely

long story short , i thought i could tough things out with my bully - narcisist - whatever , was twenty and full of ego and male pride , wasnt going to give in , worst thing i ever did , some people are inherently wired wrong in the head and see thier toxic behaviour as not only acceptable but as beneficial to others , its a truly extrordinary mindset , run a mile , thats all you can do
Yikes, you had it bad. When someone sets it up so that you begin to doubt your own reality, it's called "gaslighting." Look it up--the book I mentioned is quite good and there's a good article about sociopaths on wiki that should get you started. The world is full of these types--sometimes they're quite intelligent and in positions of power, as your boss was, and sometimes it's the janitor who likes to torture small animals when no one is looking. Either way, they seek to harm others, either mentally or physically and either way it's a murder. My sis is the most harmless kind--mostly too lazy to do much of anything, but she abandoned two small children and has left the rest of the family just reeling from her bad actions, or inactions as the case may be.
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