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I believe you are missing the point, Mexico has nothing to equal a Harvard education. To be accepted at Harvard he has to be two things. 1. really really smart 2. have really good character. He is being punished for something totally beyond his control, the actions of another. No one gives you a Harvard education, you earn the opportunity.
The University of Mexico at Mexico City is most definitely a top-notch university and it's medical school is excellent. This guy if he's really all that smart would do just fine there. Guadalajara has a very good medical school also - ironically many Americans pay to attend that one.
I think it's wrong to promote the idea that Mexico is utterly impoverished, backward, lacking universities and all higher education just to push the idea that no one can advance unless they sneak into the USA and are given a free college in the USA.
This guy is illegally here, he's smart enough I think to realize that. He is not going to be denied all opportunity if he returns to his own country.
As for the Mexico forum, illegals in Mexico would not be demanding free anything or a right to stay - there is no "Dream Act" or handouts for anyone caught living in Mexico illegally. But as for the topic of Mexico, this kind of article leads Americans to believe that Mexico is much more backward than it is.
It's high drama, but the reality is that if he returns to his country, he will have a whole lot of opportunities and could be a great asset to his own country. Promoting a "brain-drain" obviously does not benefit Mexico, nor does the suggestion that anyone "smart" should be illegally in the USA while we might be allowed to ship back only the stupid.
In fact in Mexico if someone completes high school, delays the start of a family and limit family size to the number of children he or she can afford, that someone will almost surely be middle class or higher. And the middle class is growing - but Mexico is not going to advance if all the above 100 IQ types flee because everything is free for them in the USA.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
The University of Mexico at Mexico City is most definitely a top-notch university and it's medical school is excellent. This guy if he's really all that smart would do just fine there. Guadalajara has a very good medical school also - ironically many Americans pay to attend that one.
I think it's wrong to promote the idea that Mexico is utterly impoverished, backward, lacking universities and all higher education just to push the idea that no one can advance unless they sneak into the USA and are given a free college in the USA.
This guy is illegally here, he's smart enough I think to realize that. He is not going to be denied all opportunity if he returns to his own country.
As for the Mexico forum, illegals in Mexico would not be demanding free anything or a right to stay - there is no "Dream Act" or handouts for anyone caught living in Mexico illegally. But as for the topic of Mexico, this kind of article leads Americans to believe that Mexico is much more backward than it is.
It's high drama, but the reality is that if he returns to his country, he will have a whole lot of opportunities and could be a great asset to his own country. Promoting a "brain-drain" obviously does not benefit Mexico, nor does the suggestion that anyone "smart" should be illegally in the USA while we might be allowed to ship back only the stupid.
In fact in Mexico if someone completes high school, delays the start of a family and limit family size to the number of children he or she can afford, that someone will almost surely be middle class or higher. And the middle class is growing - but Mexico is not going to advance if all the above 100 IQ types flee because everything is free for them in the USA.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, I wonder why the kid should feel bad for returning to Mexico, with the skills he has he could even be more successful in a country that needs people with his skills than in a country where there are thousands of skilled men who are legal residents or citizens. I even wonder why hasn't the Mexican government done something to attract this kid here, like offering him an scholarship or some kind of aid, this makes me things that the Mexican government is against development instead of being supporting it, how come the government spending in science, research and development is so low compared to what is being wasted in the war on drugs?
Btw my father graduated as a Surgeon with specialization in Gastroenterology in the UNAM, he comes from a working class family who had to struggle to make ends meet, but he and all his siblings studied in the UNAM, all of them have the same material comforts and luxuries of their American counterparts. I do too possess a degree in audio engineering and musical production, I've never lacked anything in my adult life and neither I nor my family would ever dream of living in the USA much less illegaly, I lived in the USA in mc Allen TX for a brief time under an H1b visa a long time ago, it was a nice experience but I missed my Mexico, I lived 2 years in Brazil as well, I consider Brazil my second home and I could remained there forever, but I missed my Mexico, because of this I feel bad when I listen people complaining and blaming the government, the country or any other "demon" for their disgraces, I always tell them that if they want things to improve they should work, most people get angry when I tell them this but it's the truth.
We have one thing in common, we have both spent time in Vallarta. I just came back from 2 weeks there in May. Those homes with satellites I referenced I was referring to home in the hills above Puerto Vallarta.
Just admit you are democrat or at least liberal. There is no shame in admitting this. I am conservative but do not consider myself Republican. I didn't vote for or against Obama which I am sure you did given your anti-McCain remark. Btw, I thought Palin was an idiot and didn't vote for either party.
Sure, I have no problem admitting I tend to vote democratic but that definitely wasn't an anti-McCain comment at all - I had hoped something would come of his proposed immigration bill! And we DO agree on Ms. Palin.. Can't believe she gets the press she does when so many other people are much more worthy.
As you may have noted, I'm in Bucerias about half the year.. Tend to stay away from Vallarta's traffic - except the airport where I am going shortly! Love this place even though it is getting VERY hot..
Imagine ascending to the point where you become a Harvard student. Then imagine you're picked up by ICE and subject to deportation - because you were brought illegally to the USA when you were only four years old - and your feet have not touched Mexican soil since then.
This young student's story is just one more reason (among many) why the US Congress must begin addressing the immigration issue pronto. At least Harvard is standing behind this young man.
This guy is illegally here, he's smart enough I think to realize that. He is not going to be denied all opportunity if he returns to his own country.
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that this student did/does have a valid student visa, but that he had lost his passport. To avoid errant comments one way or the other, would someone please confirm with certainty whether he is, indeed, here illegally, or not?
I agree wholeheartedly with you, I wonder why the kid should feel bad for returning to Mexico...
I imagine he would feel bad – regardless of any right or wrong of the matter – because his life has been here. Putting oneself in his position – having his circle of family, friends, pastimes... his entire world and life experience – who wouldn't feel bad in his position when, not by choice, if here illegally he would be banned for 10 years from re-entering the United States – separated without choice from everything he has loved, created, and dreamed. Again, my comment is not directed to any issue of legality... it is about having empathy for how he could feel that his world has imploded. Even if he may be deported, we can still attempt to relate to his sense of loss. I know many illegals who have been separated from family who were gravely ill or dying, ineligible for visas, and could not be with their loved ones due to their immigration status, just as an example. This student, if deported, would also be banned from his life, his world, his family, his choices, and his intended future. One more time... my comments are not about legality... they are about our collective failure to understand real and human emotions, apart from right or wrong. This is not a justification not to deport him, but simply a call not to question him for feeling bad.
If this kid is illegal and returned to Mexico, and is a genius as everyone says, he has the opportunity to get a scholarship through the CONACyT in Mexico to study in England, France, Germany, ETC.
I'm sick of the sentimentality of the mexamericans who feel that returning to Mexico is almost equal to the hell and the lack of empathy for Americans who believe deserve always more just for be born on that piece of land.
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that this student did/does have a valid student visa, but that he had lost his passport. To avoid errant comments one way or the other, would someone please confirm with certainty whether he is, indeed, here illegally, or not?
Every single news source has identified him as illegal. That is what the whole fuss is all about. If he was legal, the charges would have been dismissed and he wouldn't still have a July court date.
The only one I've ever seen claim he was legal was el inombrable who provided no references for it. He claimed the kid had a student visa (issued by the govt) but I suspect he was getting confused by stories mentioning how he had a student ID (issued by Harvard).
And, hey, it IS our responsibilty since we're those who elect the people in charge to do the right thing - which clearly they are NOT doing - and haven't been doing for many election cycles. If people are that upset they need to write their congressmen/women on a regular basis, laying out how they feel.
By that token, it is the fault of the Mexican people that their drug cartel violence is out of control, corruption is deep rooted in police and government agencies, wages are so low, infrastructure is lacking in many areas, and so on. After all, they elect their leaders too. Yet I don't see the Mexican people constantly being berated for all these problems. Why are the American people seen as the culprits for all the problems in America but the Mexican people seen as the victims of all the problems in Mexico?
In reality, it's wrong to blame the American people as the philosophical elitists so love to do because they have no real alternative. Whoever they elect behaves the same in the end regardless of what they promise in the beginning. As you noted, it transcends political parties and generations.
I think we all understand America cannot deport 20 million people. I think we all know America needs *some* (maybe 20%) of those people. The difference between Dems and Repubs is subtle. The Dems want to provide amnesty (regardless of what you actually call it) first and then *maybe* consider securing the borders and enforcing immigration laws. The Repubs want to secure the borders and enforce immigration laws first and then *maybe* consider some form of amnesty.
The reason I side with the Repubs on this issue is I believe that if a "pathway to citizenship" is approved before sealing the borders there will be a stampede across the border and a flood of false documents. That's what happened in 1986.
Oh well, since I started this thread - can I end it? It's clear that noone here has any ideas for a real solution to this boy's situation (and all the many others like him). It's also clear that people stand firmly on both sides of the issue/border. Simply send him back to his native country and let him get an education there cause he's an illegal is one side - or finally fix the immigration problem and have some empathy for a person who only knows the USA. Looks like we'll (each of us) never get beyong our basic, firm positions and convictions.
Just saw your post DiverTodd so had to go back and rewrite this! Thanks for clarifying political stands of Dems and the GOP for me and others here.. In this case it seems like a compromise (haha) would be quite workable, but is that a pipe dream? Securing the border, *of course*, needs to be a priority and, I'd agree, enforcing immigration law is essential.. But, as someone said somewhere in this debate, the immigration courts are overloaded already - so perhaps more immigration judges are needed? (So, you see we DO agree somewhat) The amnesty proposal also makes sense for those who've here for a while and paid their taxes and been contributing members of society - without any criminal violations. This would be a huge step forward if all the stars alligned - if the US Congress would quit worrying about the next election cycle.. But then, as I've noted, there is *The Business Community* lobby who'd prefer things stay just as they are. So, you see we have, in a sense, a real Mexican Standoff...
Then as to the inter-related drug cartel problems for the Mex gov, I'll include this link I read earlier, based on comments by Calderon. following is an excerpt from Slate from a WP article.. {I think the US and Mexico have a WHOLE lot they need to seriouslyt talk about}
"In an editorial printed in newspapers nationwide Monday, President Felipe Calderon defended his drug war as vital to the country's security," the Washington Post reported. "More than 23,000 people have died in drug-related violence since December 2006, when Calderon first sent the Mexican military into the streets, according to a government report." In his 5,000-word editorial, Calderon directly blamed the United States for having such a high level of drug consumption even though the U.S. financially supports Mexico's war on narcotics, sending in dogs, night-vision goggles, military helicopters, armored cars, and more. "It is as if our neighbor were the biggest drug addict in the world," he wrote.
http://slatest.slate.com/id/2257171/?wpisrc=newsletter (broken link)
Last edited by SarahSal; 06-16-2010 at 03:34 PM..
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