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I have lived in Mexico for many many years in various locations. I have never had a problem with crime of any kind.
Now is a little different in border towns and large cities.
There are still many small towns I would go to in a minute without any fear or problems, just like everywhere else. But don't make it sound like crime, and other problems don't exist in Mexico, they do as they do everywhere else.
My wife is from Monterrey and gets her info first hand from friends and relatives and the Monterrey newspapers, and crime is a real problem.
Crime is a real problem in many US cities - a bigger problem.
In Mexico it's two kinds of violent crime problems. The cartel crimes which are very targetted - if you snitched on your cartel, stole money from it, or if you're working for an enemy cartel, you have a reason to want to run, you have every reason to be afraid. But - since you fear the cartel wrath for your own actions, that should not get you instant citizenship in the USA.
The other crime that Mexico has is the typical street crime and domestic violence and the usual lovers triangles, etc. That kind of crime is found in the USA also but is not a reason for asylum, that kind of crime takes a community effort and law enforcement. Running to the USA doesn't do a thing about the usual street crime and domestic violence.
Yes people will leave a violent city - look at Detroit - but all of Detroit didn't pack up and move to Windsor or Canadian cities. They might have moved but they relocated to other USA cities.
Mostly it's for money that they come to the USA, no matter what other excuses they try to come up with. The fact that so many head straight to violent cities like Los Angeles, Houston, Chicago shows it's not violent crime that they're trying to escape.
Also it's lack of real love of Mexico that they would simply pack up and run and leave the problems to worsen. Abandoning Mexico - but later waving the Mexican flag every chance they can - doesn't benefit Mexico in any way at all. But - then they turn around and paint a terrible and untrue picture of Mexico, claiming the whole country is unliveable, insisting they cannot live in any part of Mexico but only in the US.
And as far as high crime being a justification to immigrate to the USA - there are countries much more violent as a whole than Mexico. If we're to give preference to those from violent countries, others would have first dibs. Mexico's crime rate isn't nearly as high as other nations.
In Mexico it's two kinds of violent crime problems. The cartel crimes which are very targetted - if you snitched on your cartel, stole money from it, or if you're working for an enemy cartel, you have a reason to want to run, you have every reason to be afraid. But - since you fear the cartel wrath for your own actions, that should not get you instant citizenship in the USA.
I think that's the most off base thing you have ever said here, to suggest that the only ones who have a sincere fear of cartel violence are those involved in cartel activity. Their intended target may be specific but the means with which they go after him is very blunt. They are shooting up an entire restaurant or night club because one person they want is in there.
And this creates a cascade of social and psychological and economic consequences that go far beyond the actual damage. It's akin to terrorism, which kills a tiny fraction of the number killed by car wrecks but triggers a deep fear in people. It's not just about the number of people killed but the way they are killed. It may not seem logical analysing it from the safety of your office in front of a computer but it's how people feel and react.
I don't think people are running from common street crime so going to Houston or LA is not a problem for them. Those cities do not have the cartel terroristic violence.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Crime is a real problem in many US cities - a bigger problem.
In Mexico it's two kinds of violent crime problems. The cartel crimes which are very targetted - if you snitched on your cartel, stole money from it, or if you're working for an enemy cartel, you have a reason to want to run, you have every reason to be afraid. But - since you fear the cartel wrath for your own actions, that should not get you instant citizenship in the USA.
I don't want to play the devil's advocate here, but I'll say that I used to think this too, but my friends in Juarez have told me that cartels are starting to target innocent people as well, not so long ago a 22 year old woman with a 1 year old child was killed, because they were in a nightclub and some thugs were beating a friend of his, and she and other friends tried to defend him and they were murdered.
I believe that most of Juarez and other border city immigrants are different from those who leave from small towns and have almost no education and have this concept of Mexico as a living hell hole, but my friends from Juarez who have gone to live @ El paso, tell me that El paso is not the same, that they miss Juarez, that they are concerned about the situation and would return if things get better but that they fear for their families because not everybody has double nationality or the resources to legally immigrate and they don't want to loose touch, some have relocated to Mexico city, Torreon or even Oaxaca, but they are the minority, the worst thing is that now that the Feds replaced the Army in Juarez people tell me that some of them are behind the kidnappings and extorsions, and I believe it because not so long ago there was an scandal where lower rank feds rebelled against their leaders and beated them for being corrupt, the president said they should be punished for their behavior because there are other "ways" to handle this, but the chambers said that if the corruption of the commanders could be proven they shouldn't be punished. Most people in this country believes that the real reason behind this war on drugs is that Calderon wants to leave just one narco El Chapo Guzman, and destroy all the other cartels, they say that all this violence in Juarez is because they brought the army and cops to help El Chapo stay with the plaza, but La linea isn't going to surrender that easily, and they have millions of dollars and and army ready to fight them, it's strange that after Calderon started being questioned about this, Chapo's right hand fell. I don't know the truth neither do you, but I still believe Calderon is a stupid clown, he hasn't suffered any loss for the war on drugs that's why he insists on it, but what about all the families who have lost somebody? what about the cities who used to be very safe and the pride of Mexico like Monterrey? Ex president Fox is criticizing Calderon for his war on drugs and then Calderon said that during Fox's term no narco was killed, and Fox revired, neither a citizen died because of the war on drugs, I never thought I was going to say this but I miss fox what's next? people taking justice on their own hands? it seems to be starting to happen. I'll open a thread about that.
I think that's the most off base thing you have ever said here, to suggest that the only ones who have a sincere fear of cartel violence are those involved in cartel activity. Their intended target may be specific but the means with which they go after him is very blunt. They are shooting up an entire restaurant or night club because one person they want is in there.
And this creates a cascade of social and psychological and economic consequences that go far beyond the actual damage. It's akin to terrorism, which kills a tiny fraction of the number killed by car wrecks but triggers a deep fear in people. It's not just about the number of people killed but the way they are killed. It may not seem logical analysing it from the safety of your office in front of a computer but it's how people feel and react.
I don't think people are running from common street crime so going to Houston or LA is not a problem for them. Those cities do not have the cartel terroristic violence.
So your answer is that everyone simply pack up and head on over to the USA - no matter that there are no jobs in the USA even for Americans? And that they simply let their country collapse?
Your plan isn't going to stabilize the border region at all. Anyone with the means, any business owners are to simply relocate over to the US side, reopen their business in the USA, fire their housekeepers and yard men, who cares if they ever find work again - it's every man for himself? Let the rest go down in flames?
I think that is much of the problem now in Juarez, those who actually want to save their city are now a mere handful of people, the rest saved their own skins only - and that leaves a city all the more desperate and unable to come out of this. People don't even relocate somewhere else in their own country to try to work on it's problems - they just hightail it over to the USA and know they'll be well taken care of - and to hell with those who can't get out.
I'm seeing a lot of that - all you see are trucks moving things from Juarez and you hear of the big houses sitting empty and the poor are worse off than ever.
I don't want to play the devil's advocate here, but I'll say that I used to think this too, but my friends in Juarez have told me that cartels are starting to target innocent people as well, not so long ago a 22 year old woman with a 1 year old child was killed, because they were in a nightclub and some thugs were beating a friend of his, and she and other friends tried to defend him and they were murdered.
I believe that most of Juarez and other border city immigrants are different from those who leave from small towns and have almost no education and have this concept of Mexico as a living hell hole, but my friends from Juarez who have gone to live @ El paso, tell me that El paso is not the same, that they miss Juarez, that they are concerned about the situation and would return if things get better but that they fear for their families because not everybody has double nationality or the resources to legally immigrate and they don't want to loose touch, some have relocated to Mexico city, Torreon or even Oaxaca, but they are the minority, the worst thing is that now that the Feds replaced the Army in Juarez people tell me that some of them are behind the kidnappings and extorsions, and I believe it because not so long ago there was an scandal where lower rank feds rebelled against their leaders and beated them for being corrupt, the president said they should be punished for their behavior because there are other "ways" to handle this, but the chambers said that if the corruption of the commanders could be proven they shouldn't be punished. Most people in this country believes that the real reason behind this war on drugs is that Calderon wants to leave just one narco El Chapo Guzman, and destroy all the other cartels, they say that all this violence in Juarez is because they brought the army and cops to help El Chapo stay with the plaza, but La linea isn't going to surrender that easily, and they have millions of dollars and and army ready to fight them, it's strange that after Calderon started being questioned about this, Chapo's right hand fell. I don't know the truth neither do you, but I still believe Calderon is a stupid clown, he hasn't suffered any loss for the war on drugs that's why he insists on it, but what about all the families who have lost somebody? what about the cities who used to be very safe and the pride of Mexico like Monterrey? Ex president Fox is criticizing Calderon for his war on drugs and then Calderon said that during Fox's term no narco was killed, and Fox revired, neither a citizen died because of the war on drugs, I never thought I was going to say this but I miss fox what's next? people taking justice on their own hands? it seems to be starting to happen. I'll open a thread about that.
100% agree with your comments. I am hearing the same stories from lots of my US and Mexican friends in Mexico and they all have the same sentiments.
Do not misunderstand my posts here. I absolutely love Mexico, the people and the culture and what is going on and the escalation makes me very sad.
Mexico rethinks drug strategy as death toll soars - World AP - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/08/15/1776907/mexico-rethinks-drug-strategy.html - broken link)
Members of the Sinaloa drug cartel may be in pursuit of rivals belonging to the Carrillo Fuentes drug cartel in El Paso, according to El Paso Police Department dispatchers today.
It's not as though their cartel enemies can't figure out where they now are. I believe their enemies know perfectly well where they're hiding and are just biding their time. The Sinaloa cartel most likely is in the process of moving it's own counterparts to the Barrio Azteca that belongs to the Juarez cartel into El Paso and surrounding region and then the fun begins all over.
New home developers in the US communities north of Tijuana (Chula Vista, etc.) report to me that many families of cartel members are being relocated out of Mexico to protect them. This is a big source of new home purchases these days.
So your answer is that everyone simply pack up and head on over to the USA - no matter that there are no jobs in the USA even for Americans? And that they simply let their country collapse?
Sorry but this comment is false. The people I know who moved got jobs, illegally of course, with a store manager who has been looking for sales staff for years to no avail in the Houston area. He says his fellow managers at other locations need about 4 or 5 people each. He's grateful to have new employees because it means he can work 60 hours a week instead of 75 or 80. Another is working at a restaurant which now has custom made salads again. For 2 months they have been trying to hire a salad maker and during that time customers have asked repeatedly for a return to having an option of someone making a salad instead of them making it themselves. There are hundreds of these kinds of jobs around Texas.
As for letting the country collapse, I think there are still over 100 million Mexicans left in Mexico, its not about to collapse because some went north.
So your answer is that everyone simply pack up and head on over to the USA - no matter that there are no jobs in the USA even for Americans? And that they simply let their country collapse?
Your plan isn't going to stabilize the border region at all. Anyone with the means, any business owners are to simply relocate over to the US side, reopen their business in the USA, fire their housekeepers and yard men, who cares if they ever find work again - it's every man for himself? Let the rest go down in flames?
Did I say that? No I didn't say that. How did you make that kind of leap?
I offered no "plan" and didn't say what anyone *should* do. In fact, I agree with you that asylum in the U.S. should not be granted simply because a Mexican fears cartel violence as long as they have an alternative (e.g. move to southern Mexico).
What I said is that I disagree with your implication that cartel violence only affects those involved in cartel activities and thus only those involved in cartel activities have reason to fear cartel violence.
Sorry but this comment is false. The people I know who moved got jobs, illegally of course, with a store manager who has been looking for sales staff for years to no avail in the Houston area. He says his fellow managers at other locations need about 4 or 5 people each. He's grateful to have new employees because it means he can work 60 hours a week instead of 75 or 80. Another is working at a restaurant which now has custom made salads again. For 2 months they have been trying to hire a salad maker and during that time customers have asked repeatedly for a return to having an option of someone making a salad instead of them making it themselves. There are hundreds of these kinds of jobs around Texas.
No, that is poppycock. Thousands of retail businesses have been adequately staffed in this area for many years. If a retail business cannot find employees it's because they offer below average and unacceptable pay and working conditions. Have you ever seen a McDonald's closed due to no employees? They offer a dime over minimum wage and work you like a slave so anyone that can't find employees must be much worse than that. As for a salad maker, that's ridiculous. Lots of restaurants around making your salad. Name these stores, please.
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what's next? people taking justice on their own hands? it seems to be starting to happen. I'll open a thread about that.
