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Old 08-07-2011, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,757 posts, read 39,452,814 times
Reputation: 28908

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Quote:
Originally Posted by axixic2 View Post
You really cannot file whatever you feel like filing in federal court. There must be supporting documents and/or evidence. Lawyers are sanctioned for filing unsupported documents. A judge kicks out unsupported documents and claims as frivolous.
If that were entirely true, there would be no arguments in court. A general case can be brought in court, with all kinds of representations being made as to the legitimacy of the claims or the relevance of the documents. In this case, the claimant might have had some affidavits originating with people just as shady as he is. They then become "US Court Documents", which make claims that may or may not be sustainable in the end, and that fact alone does not lend any credence to their reliability or even authenticity. That is for the court to decide through due process, not the judge at first glance.

And there is plenty of evidence the world is flat, Your Honor, just look out the window.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:29 AM
 
2,383 posts, read 3,214,408 times
Reputation: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBCasino View Post
So, where's the evidence?

Call me crazy, but I'm not gonna take a drug kingpin at his word, without some actual proof.
We may not have proof yet but I wouldn't discard the information. Remember when the US was drug dealing with Noriega? When he refused to continue dealing, the US went after him on drug charges.

The US denied any involvement in Fast and Furious at the beginning. It wasn't until the agent was killed that an investigation was opened. Even then, they still denied it until recently.

The US is very corrupt.
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Old 08-08-2011, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Axixic, Jalisco, MX
1,185 posts, read 1,559,169 times
Reputation: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If that were entirely true, there would be no arguments in court. A general case can be brought in court, with all kinds of representations being made as to the legitimacy of the claims or the relevance of the documents. In this case, the claimant might have had some affidavits originating with people just as shady as he is. They then become "US Court Documents", which make claims that may or may not be sustainable in the end, and that fact alone does not lend any credence to their reliability or even authenticity. That is for the court to decide through due process, not the judge at first glance.

And there is plenty of evidence the world is flat, Your Honor, just look out the window.
That's not the system in the U.S.

One can ask for a bench trial and no jury trial, but most cases are argued in front of a jury. The jury determines the authenticity of the witnesses and the evidence.

Perhaps the author of the article shouldn't have titled it "U.S. Court Documents ......" and that would get rid of the confusion.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Riverside County
1,157 posts, read 655,498 times
Reputation: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
We may not have proof yet
"yet" isn't gonna cut it. Either there's proof, or there isn't.

Quote:
The US is very corrupt.
And Cartel members are to be trusted?

I think I know how this is going to go, cartels are violent, dangerous etc... But, if they have something negative to say about the U.S., they are 100 percent correct and should be taken at their word, without any proof. That sound about right?

All I'm asking for is evidence, if there is - that's another black eye, but if there isn't...
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,757 posts, read 39,452,814 times
Reputation: 28908
Quote:
Originally Posted by axixic2 View Post
That's not the system in the U.S.

One can ask for a bench trial and no jury trial, but most cases are argued in front of a jury. The jury determines the authenticity of the witnesses and the evidence.

Perhaps the author of the article shouldn't have titled it "U.S. Court Documents ......" and that would get rid of the confusion.
If you click the link at the bottom of the page, you'll see that this is nothing but a request the that the judge grant defendant the right to question potential witnesses:

"Based on the above, it is respectfully submitted that Mr. Zambada-Niebla is entitled to the discovery requested in his motion."


When discovery requests are objected to, the requesting party may seek the assistance of the court by filing a motion to compel discovery.

It is a US Court Document, but that does not mean the the US government or court has endorsed or has taken any action to validate the claims therein. This is very common language used by the news media to make a load of BS sound like it has some imprimatur of authority.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Axixic, Jalisco, MX
1,185 posts, read 1,559,169 times
Reputation: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If you click the link at the bottom of the page, you'll see that this is nothing but a request the that the judge grant defendant the right to question potential witnesses:

"Based on the above, it is respectfully submitted that Mr. Zambada-Niebla is entitled to the discovery requested in his motion."


When discovery requests are objected to, the requesting party may seek the assistance of the court by filing a motion to compel discovery.

It is a US Court Document, but that does not mean the the US government or court has endorsed or has taken any action to validate the claims therein. This is very common language used by the news media to make a load of BS sound like it has some imprimatur of authority.
The article stated that if he tried to get discovery from the CIA that it would be refused based on "national security" reasons. The national security argument hurts us all because it gives the government the ability to run a secret government. The price we paid for letting GWB scare us with the boogeyman.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,757 posts, read 39,452,814 times
Reputation: 28908
Quote:
Originally Posted by axixic2 View Post
The article stated that if he tried to get discovery from the CIA that it would be refused based on "national security" reasons. The national security argument hurts us all because it gives the government the ability to run a secret government. The price we paid for letting GWB scare us with the boogeyman.
And even worse, it obstructs the accused from his constitutional due process, including his Sixth Amendment right to "have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor". But then, the entire Patriot Act is nothing but a unilateral abrogation of the entire Constitution.
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