Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Mexico
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-30-2014, 01:56 AM
 
2 posts, read 3,359 times
Reputation: 10

Advertisements

Mexico has everything it needs to be a prosperous developed country with high standards of living, where the majority are middle classed and don't need to turn to crime or immigrate to the US to make a descent living. Now I know most Mexicans don't turn to either of these two, but still, a lot have, because they're not paid enough.

I live in a very Hispanic city, and rich Mexicans are some of the most selfish sociopathic people ever. I've heard of immigrant Mexicans working for them here in the US, and the wealthy Mexicans treating them like slaves and even not paying them sometimes. They basically don't like to share. They control Mexico with their party, the PRI.

Mexico has all the potential to have been a country as developed as the US or Canada, and sadly, it hasn't taken advantage of it.

will Mexico ever become a developed nation? Is Mexico even improving with the new government, or is it back to the making deals with the cartels and mass corruption days, contrary to "it being a new PRI".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-30-2014, 02:08 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 2,830,107 times
Reputation: 1449
local corruption, local inequality, their stupid religion, mexican idiosyncrasy, the US influence

pretty much the reason mexico is like it is
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2014, 07:26 AM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,275,268 times
Reputation: 10644
I don't see why "rich Mexicans" are at fault. If you're generally saying that income inequality is a problem in Mexico, everyone will agree, but Mexico will not somehow be "richer" if you make the rich poorer. You'll just get Venezuela or Argentina.

Mexico has been progressing fine, BTW. It has pretty decent growth rates, and a fast expanding middle class. It's more of a middle income country than a poor country at this point. Really only the South of Mexico (esp. closer to Guatemala) is third world in feel at this point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2014, 07:43 AM
 
1,276 posts, read 1,925,787 times
Reputation: 3444
I think the general premise of rich Mexicans (and their PRI party) holding the country back is fairly accurate, in my observation. I live in Mexico City where many of the wealthiest Mexicans live and I see the greed, racism, and the look-down-upon attitudes toward the indigenous peoples every day. And I have travelled extensively in south-central Mexico in the four+ years I have lived here, including to many rural areas where much of the indigenous people live. If you think the disparity between "the haves" and the "have nots" is marked in the US, it is 100X more noticeable here. The greed, corruption, protecting the status quo, and the US (and now Chinese) influence are all factors--plus many more (Catholic influence, big drug money, horrid police protection, horrific violence, etc.). Essentially, Mexico is considered a failed state.

Apparently, the Mexican govt, for the first time in their history, has agreed to open their oil reserves to outside investors. You can be sure the US has had a hand in that deal. Their rich oil reserves will do nothing to raise the standard of living for the average (mostly poor) Mexican. But you can be sure it will greatly enrich the PRI party cronies, their wealthy cohorts, and already-wealthy investors. But to add some balance---doesn't this same kind of thing happen all over the world? The rich and powerful exploit people and resources to their advantage on every continent. The issues here in Mexico are but a microcosm of what happens across the planet. People need to wake up across the globe and take their countries back from the criminally insane gazillionaires who have stolen all the real wealth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2014, 07:53 AM
 
1,276 posts, read 1,925,787 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
I don't see why "rich Mexicans" are at fault. If you're generally saying that income inequality is a problem in Mexico, everyone will agree, but Mexico will not somehow be "richer" if you make the rich poorer. You'll just get Venezuela or Argentina.

Mexico has been progressing fine, BTW. It has pretty decent growth rates, and a fast expanding middle class. It's more of a middle income country than a poor country at this point. Really only the South of Mexico (esp. closer to Guatemala) is third world in feel at this point.
^^This is crock, in my opinion. Sorry, but I don't agree that Mexico is progressing just fine, or that it is a "middle income" country. Yes, you hear that the middle class is growing--but I want to see the proof in the pudding. If you consider more people shopping at the thousands of Walmarts popping up all over Mexico to be "middle class" than you're delusional. I see no evidence in vast sections of Mexico City that the middle class is growing--none whatsoever. The minimum wage in Mexico is outrageously low at 8 pesos per hour--that is about 60 cents USD per hour. The vast majority of workers in Mexico make less than 3,000 pesos per month ($250 USD)--and that is a fact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2014, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
983 posts, read 1,628,776 times
Reputation: 846
It's the political class. Yes, they are rich, but not all the rich in Mexico are part of the political class. And actually not all the political class is super rich.

But it's them, with their gigantic government (that keeps growing administration after administration), their corruption at every level (local to federal government, pervasive), their crony capitalism that creates and maintains regulation that only helps their friends (like the ridiculous energy "reform" they just passed).

They are cynical, over their heads at this point. And it's people from every party.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2014, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
983 posts, read 1,628,776 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by TotallyTam View Post
^^This is crock, in my opinion. Sorry, but I don't agree that Mexico is progressing just fine, or that it is a "middle income" country. Yes, you hear that the middle class is growing--but I want to see the proof in the pudding. If you consider more people shopping at the thousands of Walmarts popping up all over Mexico to be "middle class" than you're delusional. I see no evidence in vast sections of Mexico City that the middle class is growing--none whatsoever. The minimum wage in Mexico is outrageously low at 8 pesos per hour--that is about 60 cents USD per hour. The vast majority of workers in Mexico make less than 3,000 pesos per month ($250 USD)--and that is a fact.
Post a job ad in Mexico City with the minimum wage and you will get a grand total of 0 ZERO 0 applicants. Using the minimum wage as a wealth stick is ridiculous (by that measure, Switzerland is the poorest country on earth with a minimum wage of $0).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2014, 08:21 AM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,275,268 times
Reputation: 10644
Quote:
Originally Posted by TotallyTam View Post
^^This is crock, in my opinion. Sorry, but I don't agree that Mexico is progressing just fine, or that it is a "middle income" country.
You don't have to agree, but it's a fact. Mexico is in the middle range of countries in terms of income. It's actually middle-high.

And Mexican growth rates are generally higher than global averages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TotallyTam View Post
Yes, you hear that the middle class is growing--but I want to see the proof in the pudding. If you consider more people shopping at the thousands of Walmarts popping up all over Mexico to be "middle class" than you're delusional.
Again, you're arguing your political biases against actual facts. The middle tier of incomes in Mexico has been growing as a share of overall incomes.

And yeah, Mexicans buying homes, cars, shopping at Walmart, etc. are all evidence of middle class growth in Mexico (for non-Mexicans, Walmart is much more expensive than small stores in Mexico, so growth of such stores is definitely evidence of middle class growth).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TotallyTam View Post
I see no evidence in vast sections of Mexico City that the middle class is growing--none whatsoever. The minimum wage in Mexico is outrageously low at 8 pesos per hour--that is about 60 cents USD per hour. The vast majority of workers in Mexico make less than 3,000 pesos per month ($250 USD)--and that is a fact.
All wrong, and none of this addresses the issue of whether or not the middle class is growing. Minimum wage could be one peso per year, and that would not refute the fact that the middle class is growing. Obviously middle class households are not earning minimum wage.

And median household income in Mexico is around $12,000 U.S. per year, so obviously your claim that the "vast majority of workers make less than 3,000 pesos per month" is absurd nonsense. That would mean median household income is like $3,000 a year, which would make Mexico poorer than Guatemala, Bolivia, Guyana and half of Africa. It would mean Mexico is close to Haiti in prosperity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2014, 09:31 AM
 
6,375 posts, read 11,831,452 times
Reputation: 6812
The real reform which is needed is taxation and public spending. Tax collection needs to increase with the money spent on schools and municipal services. This reform is never called for, but it is what truly separates Mexico from where it wants to go. The country can't take a big step forward with its current educational system. It can't fight crime and corruption paying municipal workers the meager wages it does. It can't grow it's productivity with the sorry state of infrastructure seen almost everywhere but in the big three cities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2014, 09:42 AM
 
1,276 posts, read 1,925,787 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
You don't have to agree, but it's a fact. Mexico is in the middle range of countries in terms of income. It's actually middle-high.

And Mexican growth rates are generally higher than global averages.

Again, you're arguing your political biases against actual facts. The middle tier of incomes in Mexico has been growing as a share of overall incomes.

And yeah, Mexicans buying homes, cars, shopping at Walmart, etc. are all evidence of middle class growth in Mexico (for non-Mexicans, Walmart is much more expensive than small stores in Mexico, so growth of such stores is definitely evidence of middle class growth).


All wrong, and none of this addresses the issue of whether or not the middle class is growing. Minimum wage could be one peso per year, and that would not refute the fact that the middle class is growing. Obviously middle class households are not earning minimum wage.

And median household income in Mexico is around $12,000 U.S. per year, so obviously your claim that the "vast majority of workers make less than 3,000 pesos per month" is absurd nonsense. That would mean median household income is like $3,000 a year, which would make Mexico poorer than Guatemala, Bolivia, Guyana and half of Africa. It would mean Mexico is close to Haiti in prosperity.
Yeah, everyone knows you cannot argue with numbers. Afterall, they cannot be sliced and diced to paint a rosey picture, can they? This whole notion that Mexico is a "middle class" country has largely been declared by a certain sect of the Mexican power structure/establishment, and subsequently lapped up by global media outlets. I understand WHY they do it, but I don't agree that this is reality.

There is much more to being "middle class" than shopping. No matter how you present the numbers, most Mexicans remain at risk of spiraling into full-blown poverty through events such as serious illness or the death of the main bread winner, as well all of the other financial setbacks that can happen. The fact that most general labor jobs here are dangerous (public and worker safety here are abhorrent), not to mention distastrous for the natural environment, illness and work-related injuries are very real. Sixty percent of all jobs here are informal structure--certainly not a middle class indicator, and 50% of the population here is very poor. Most Mexicans do not own life insurance, investments, pension funds, car insurance, health insurance, etc. To me, these assets are what make someone "middle class." You cannot say that because more Mexicans now have a cell phone, a car/house payment, or can shop at Walmart that they are middle class. The benchmarks and indicators are well beyond these things.

This country is mismanaged and astoundingly corrupt from the top down. A few have it all--the best real estate, the investments, the jobs (by nepotism), opportunities, etc. and the rest just survive. Not only that--the "whiter" and more "mestizo" you are, the better. The dark Mexicans are **cked in practically every respect. If you recall from my first post, this happens across the planet, not just Mexico. As for Mexico, the facts, statistics, and politics are manipulated to keep Mexico appearing as though it is a reputable country. I have lived here for 4+ years. What I see on a day-in-day-out basis tells me a very different story. All of the cooked numbers and stats---smoke and mirrors from the power structures in control---that's all it is.

Last edited by TotallyTam; 10-30-2014 at 10:13 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Mexico

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top