How do Indigenous/Indomestizo looking Mexicans see Caucasian/Light skin Mexicans? (buy, taxis)

[sanluisito]

No bro believe im not a troll. It is just a experience.

You are considering me a douch, and you malcorub agree with him. Issues central and south Mexico are not the same as Baja and some others parts of Mexico, and of course USA.

i uploaded a picture of me, because there is always the typical about how do white mexicans look like. That is all, there were not hidden intentions.

Anyway if you want to come to Mexico City and go to a low class neighborhood as i usually do, i bet you that people will ask more money, why? Because people think that if you are white you are rich, and if they think you are rich, you will be a better candidate to suffer a robbery. That is just logic.

I have met many white guys that used to go to a public school and they are nicknamed as the phantom, casper, the mennonite, the milky, etc etc.

In the other hand, probably you will receive a better treament from the police, sales clerk, and girls will prefer you.

[FBF]

Depends which parts of Mexico.

In cities and areas where there are majority of light skin Mexicans, you will not be stared so much.

While in more remote areas where there are more indigenous or dark skin mixed Mexicans, you will be stared at.

Mexico's media and government prefers light skin people so the effect can be seen on the people on certain circumstances, unfortunately.

I am not too light nor dark (light tan/olive skin tone) that when I travel outside my grandparent's hometown in Mexico, I am asked if I am chino or mixed with something else other than Native Mexican blood.....but because I have jet black hair, the staring is not too bad.

[Papo]

I have family in Mexico, and they must be now at the third generation, they left after the war here, around 1944. They have a house in a colonia and they are into the brandy business. When some plumber or whatever comes to service the house, they ask them "¿were are you from?"

That does not happens in Havana, Cuba, were I also have family, or in Buenos Aires, were I also have family.

[TotallyTam]

I live in Mexico City with my boyfriend and his family. They are indigenous (dark-skinned) Mexicans. They live in a typical working-class neighborhood (not posh/swanky by any stretch). I shop, walk, take busses, take taxis, and buy everything I need at the local tianguis. I am a white American. I speak basic Spanish, walk and talk with confidence. I also treat people the way I want to be treated--with kindness, compassion and respect. Never have I experienced any kind of animosity (or price cheating) from my neighbors, shopkeepers, etc. Some call me guera or grandota (white girl or big girl since I am 5'10")--neither of which are offensive to me. I have found that people down there assign a lot of nicknames to people based on their physical characteristics, e.g. gordo, gordita, chaparrita, morenito (my boyfriend's nickname).

[AntonioR]

Originally Posted by sanluisito

There is a racism against whites in Mexico. I remembered when my family and I visited the town of the nanny of my little sister on a indgenous area of Hidalgo, and when we arrived to the party(a baptism) everybody looked to us as if we were alliens jajaja. Anyway, food was delicious and the atmosphere great.

That's not racism. If you were in an indigenous area then they probably don't see many white people very often outside of the media. If a black guy was to pop in most places in Mexico he will too be stared at, its what people do when 'unusual' people appear out of nowhere.

This reminds me of this documentary of when some tribe in the jungles of Papua New Guinea meet a white man for the first time (that's probably what happened when the Spanish conquistadors discovered America):



If they knew how many more types of people are out there. LOL

[AntonioR]

Originally Posted by TotallyTam

I have found that people down there assign a lot of nicknames to people based on their physical characteristics, e.g. gordo, gordita, chaparrita, morenito (my boyfriend's nickname).

That's a Spanish (as from Spain) tradition and almost all descendants of the Spaniards (white and mixed) do that without malice. They simply describe what they see. That happens in every single Spanish country in America and in Spain too.

[Campeador]

Originally Posted by AntonioR

That's a Spanish (as from Spain) tradition and almost all descendants of the Spaniards (white and mixed) do that without malice. They simply describe what they see. That happens in every single Spanish country in America and in Spain too.

I've lived in both Spain and Mexico. This practice is much more common in Mexico.

[AntonioR]

Originally Posted by Campeador

I've lived in both Spain and Mexico. This practice is much more common in Mexico.

Thanks for that, lets see what an African American has to say:

"Within a few days of living in Spain, you will quickly learn that those little corner stores that sell snacks and drinks are usually owned by people who have emigrated from Asia or are of Asian descent. Those are referred to as “chino” stores. “Chino” as in the Spanish word for Chinese. The stores that sell the most random assortment of goods from shoes to school supplies to paintings are usually owned by Moroccans. Those are called “tiendas de los moros,” which is Spanish for “the Arabs’ stores.”

Basically, Spaniards do not pride themselves on being politically correct. There is simply no other way to put that, but I must say I somewhat admire the frankness of it all. In the US, we sometimes tiptoe around the idea of race because it can be a difficult, uncomfortable and sensitive topic to casually bring up in everyday conversation. That’s not the case in Spain. Spaniards are well aware of racial differences and are unafraid to point them out or use them as a means of identifying people. I learned that lesson within my first few days of being here, when the men catcalling me on the street made me well aware of what my new label was: “Morena.”

“Morena” is a term I have heard many people here use to describe me. It’s a word that can be used to describe anyone with dark hair and eyes. In my particular case, however, it becomes my main identifier because of my skin color..."
"Why are you black?" A look at race and diversity in Spain

It actually makes sense considering that the habit of calling people by their physical features and no one feeling offended is a tradition introduced by the Spanish everywhere they went and settled. This is a Spanish cultural tradition. That's why people that are not from countries with very strong Spanish influences, when they go to Spain they notice that this habit is heavily entrenched in their culture and very frequently pops up. Then you visit Hispanic American countries and you understand why its so common over there too, because it was the Spanish who introduced it.

[grad_student200]

Originally Posted by Almeida93

Do some see them with envy?

Do some see them with admiration?


Do some see them as regular?

My immediate answer is they are normal human beings with normal human limits like anyone else.
Historically, the caste system of Colonial Spain or Mexico must be pointed out.

I am indigenous American from Arizona related to Geronimo's family. So I am well aware of the
Spanish "casta". The light-skinned Mexicans historically evolved from the Spanish caste system or "casta".
When the Spaniards arrived in the "New World" (not so new for us), they immediately imposed a policy
of slavery or genocide. Many tribes were wiped out. The "enslaved" women were usually raped.
Consequently, a large population of mixed-blooded descendants arose. A caste system or "casta" evolved.

The top-to-bottom rank is shown in the casta:
* Peninsulares (Spaniard born in Spain with highest caste rank in the colonies)
* Criollos (Spaniard born in the colonies often holding high rank in government)
General Santa Ana, the officer who attacked the Alamo of Texas, was a criollos
* Castizo - light skinned Mexican about 3/4 Spaniard and 1/4 indigenous or Arican
* Mestizo - a Mexican who is about 1/2 Spanish and 1/2 indigenous/Mexican
* Indigenous - a pure native at the bottom of the caste system
* African - a pure African at the bottom of the caste system
http://andmagazine.com/us/1328510755.html

As many tribes died out due to warfare or lack of immune resistance to disease brought by Spaniards,
the colony rulers decided to import West African slaves. This slave population did not disappear,
so many intermixed with the local Spaniards and indigenous population. By default, the majority of
Mexicans are typically part West African (albeit distant). It is not usually obvious but occasionally
can be seen in a Mexican with African features. Even if not obvious, the West African gene is most
definitely in the population's majority.
http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/1...ep-into-mexico

The Spaniards conquered most of what is modern Mexico. Historically, the Spanish Army was
driven out of North and Central Texas by Kiowas and Comanches. The Navajos and Apaches
also kept them out of more northern regions of AZ and NM. The Mexican-Apache War lasted from
the 1500s to the 1900s. The Comanches lost about 90% of their tribe due to smallpox and surrendered
in the 1870s. But for hundreds of years they kept Mexico's northern border at a standstill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanc...%93Mexico_Wars

Mexico enacted a scalp policy system as a policy of genocide against
Apaches of southern AZ and southern NM or west TX. An Apache male scalp was worth 100 pesos,
an Apache female scalp was worth 50 pesos, and a child's scalp was worth 25 pesos. Needless to
say, the Apache and Navajo resistance was fierce. Geronimo had been a passive, non-aggressive
adult until his wife and children were killed by scalp bounty hunters. He was named "Geronimo" by
Mexican soldiers trying to kill him when he retaliated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKw3hq-xjlg

When Geronimo surrendered after being found by Apache scouts, he actually decided to surrender to the US Army because
he thought they would treat him far better than the Mexican Army. He was most likely right. Mexico had a slave trade on Apaches into the 1900s. The movie "Geronimo" is inaccurate. It did not show that some Apaches did not surrender. One escaped
from the train trip of POWs to Florida in 1886 - Massai. He and Cochise's family held out in the Sierra Madres with the
Apache Kid. The last shootout with Apache warriors and the Mexican Army occurred in the 1930s. They never surrendered.
The hunt for these last holdout Apaches evading Mexico's caste system and the US Army was reviewed extensively by
Griffith (1969). The Apache scout shown on the cover was a Mestizo.
https://www.maremagnum.com/uploads/i...ff991aa1b.jpeg

So the criollos and castizos are symbolic of Spanish racism in the casta. That sociological pattern still exists to some degree.
It is not as harsh as the 1800s, but it is most definitely still prevalent but in more subtle ways. The people at the bottom of the casta are often unable to economically grow out of their state. So many try to enter the USA as illegal immigrants to find a "better life" compared to the harsh reality of being born at the bottom of the Spanish casta's modern legacy. View a Mexican beauty pageant and
there is far less diversity than in an American pageant. It is the casta's legacy - Spanish features are preferred that are more
European and light-skinned.
http://www.vdare.com/articles/memo-f...-allan-wall-44

To be fair, many modern Mexicans are proud of their mixed indigenous heritage. Being part "native"
is acknowledged. Unfortunately, on occasions I have met Mexicans who still believe in promoting the
casta. But they are fading into the past. I like working with young progressive Mexicans like those in
the classic Mexican film "Stand and Deliver" about Mexican teens who passed the AP calculus exam in East LA.

So the history is complicated but must be acknowledged for an honest answer. The casta was a horrible entity evolved by Spanish government for nothing other than Spain's version of white racism. The racism in many of these Spanish colonies surpasses that of the "Deep South" like Alabama or Mississippi. Watch "El Norte" and you will see what i mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbfvnT40zZU

If White Republicans in the USA want to effectively counter allegations of racism in reference to the wall, all they have to do is point to the Spanish casta. Its legacy is what is driving illegal immigrants here in the first place.

But all this is focused historically on Mexico. In the year 2017, I revere the modern Mexican culture of the southwestern USA.
When I am in a traditional Mexican restaurant in AZ, NM, or TX, I feel like I am in heaven. They often treat me like family. As far as I am concerned, the Apache-Mexican war is over.

[Songrant]

Originally Posted by P London

I'm not Mexican but I'm guessing they probably see the Whites as ''better'' than them due to social conditioning. Isn't the Mexican government all Spanish?? Isn't everyone in Mexican media white/ Then the mestizos probably look up to them in anger, delight, envy etc...

This is part of the truth

Mexicans are conditioned to value white European (Especially Spanish) traits more than their own.

This brainwashing occurs through:

MEDIA:
Mexican TV is shameless, you watch it and you don't see a single typical Mexican, it's all Caucasian looking people, and the Mexican looking characters they present are almost always shown in a ridiculous, stereotypical light. (They're always Maids, alcoholics, good but very dumb people, people so ridiculously stupid they get in ridiculous situations etc.)

I can give you factual examples if you wish!

I was recently in Mexico and I was buying Aztec detailed fabric from an indigenous woman in a very bohemian part of Mexico City called Coyoacan. All of a sudden this pompous tall white lady comes to the indigenous woman stand talking with her family and would talk down on this indigenous woman as if she was much better. She also was there to buy something (I can't remember what).

The interaction caught my attention, I do not know why but I realized this white woman was Mexican but with a clear German last name.

She was better dressed, she looked middle class and wealthy. While the indigenous woman was just a street seller.

JOB MARKET:
Back in the days when the classified sections of newspapers was a way for people to find work, you would easily see messages such as : EGRESADOS DE LA UNAM NO APLICAR. Graduates from UNAM need not apply! UNAM is Mexico's largest PUBLIC university. Only people from private wealthier universities would be considered!

In fact you go to upscale places in Mexico and the people around you will look white, while everywhere else outside of that bubble people quickly look dark.

The mere fact darker Mexicans see white Mexicans as fresas, snotty, and higher class it's a sign that indeed Mexico has not overcome their racial inequalities left over from the Spanish days.

NOTICE: I don't know if you've lived in the US around Mexicans, but you'll quickly notice how many Aztec looking Mexicans in the US are quick to emphasize some relation to the Spanish. Even if this so called links date back hundredths of years and is not even that relevant.