Puerto Vallarta residents-what's the truth about crime and safety of tourists? (location, average)
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Most tourists who are victims of crime in Mexico are in tourism zones. Often its just something stolen out of their hotel room or a pickpocket gets them. There are relatively few instances of crime in bad areas happening to a random person passing through.
I disagree with this. I know of many instances in Mexico where bad things have befallen people passing through places they shouldn't have been in.
My main point in this thread is to make sure that tourists don't have a false sense of security. Just because you've been okay visiting popular tourist areas doesn't mean all the other locations in the country are ok. I think the number of people who don't realize this is a lot higher than you might imagine.
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Criminals don't target people other than other criminals in bad areas
To the contrary, they certainly do. Tourists are targeted primarily for monetary reasons; if you find yourself in a neighborhood you shouldn't be, it's more advantageous for the criminal because those neighborhoods don't have the police presence that the tourist zones typically do.
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If a tourist is scared to lose their wallet or something material they carry with them, there are a lot of places in the world that aren't safe.
Yes, and in my opinion this type of crime is mild. what I'm more concerned about warning people about is the more dangerous/bodily harm-type of crime, which does happen, even to tourists.
I disagree with this. I know of many instances in Mexico where bad things have befallen people passing through places they shouldn't have been in.
My main point in this thread is to make sure that tourists don't have a false sense of security. Just because you've been okay visiting popular tourist areas doesn't mean all the other locations in the country are ok. I think the number of people who don't realize this is a lot higher than you might imagine.
To the contrary, they certainly do. Tourists are targeted primarily for monetary reasons; if you find yourself in a neighborhood you shouldn't be, it's more advantageous for the criminal because those neighborhoods don't have the police presence that the tourist zones typically do.
Yes, and in my opinion this type of crime is mild. what I'm more concerned about warning people about is the more dangerous/bodily harm-type of crime, which does happen, even to tourists.
What a bunch of nonsense. Why don't you just say be afraid tourists and don't go to Mexico?
Define "anywhere". As we've mentioned, it's often not accurate to make blanket statements about entire countries, as the safety situation can be very different from one place to another within that country.
The problem I have with this sort of statement is that it implies that everywhere in the world is more or less equally safe for tourists, which is wrong. Not only is it wrong, but I feel it's irresponsible because it gives a false sense of security.
A lot of people's concept of danger is nothing more than having their wallet stolen. They aren't thinking about anything else. I don't blame them - their experiences are limited. They grew up in a safe environment. Their childhood trips were to safe countries (Italy, Spain) where the worst that could happen was in fact their wallet getting stolen. Their whole concept of life is based upon these limited experiences.
But you have to be aware that there are many parts of the world where these rules don't apply. There are neighborhoods and locations where exercising normal rules of caution are not going to protect you and where much worse things can and do happen.
This thread is about Puerto Vallarta, a highly popular tourist area, where the normal rules of safety probably do apply. But there are other places in Mexico that are very dangerous. Don't let your exprience in PV lull you into a false impression about the whole country. Don't think that just because you can wander around PV safely means that you can do this in any neighborhood in any city in MX.
How about providing some useful information with your post. Where exactly is it you are talking about that is dangerous for tourists (ie: they are likely to suffer physical harm).
How about providing some useful information with your post. Where exactly is it you are talking about that is dangerous for tourists (ie: they are likely to suffer physical harm).
Outside Puerto Vallarta? My wife and I personally know two different people, this year alone since the summer, who had family members killed while driving from the border to Jalisco. In one case it was armed thieves who killed the husband but left the wife and her young kid unharmed in their car. In the other case it was the daughter of my wife's coworker whose body was found murdered outside Tijuana.
Outside Puerto Vallarta? My wife and I personally know two different people, this year alone since the summer, who had family members killed while driving from the border to Jalisco. In one case it was armed thieves who killed the husband but left the wife and her young kid unharmed in their car. In the other case it was the daughter of my wife's coworker whose body was found murdered outside Tijuana.
The truth emerges...
Then again I could point out I have like 100 in-laws and other family living in a city I wouldn't suggest anyone go to because of the crime situation, yet none of them nor their relatives friends who came back for a visit from the US were a victim of crime in the last year. Just the luck of the draw I guess.
Then again I could point out I have like 100 in-laws and other family living in a city I wouldn't suggest anyone go to because of the crime situation, yet none of them nor their relatives friends who came back for a visit from the US were a victim of crime in the last year. Just the luck of the draw I guess.
Crime and safety is about probabilities. If you go walking down the streets of Oakland your chance of being a victim of crime is substantially higher than if you go walking down the streets of Sunnyvale. You might not fall victim on the particular occasion you find yourself in Oakland, but the risk is still the same.
There are many areas in Mexico where not only is the risk substantially higher than anywhere in the U.S., but the chance of justice happening is low to non-existent (unlike in the U.S. where diligent effort is made to capture and prosecute criminals, especially violent crime).
Furthermore, there is a substantial difference in the type of crime that occurs in Mexico versus the type of crime that occurs in the U.S. These differences are because Mexico does not have a high level of control of public safety the way the U.S. does. Highway attacks by armed groups is virtually unheard of in the United States but occurs with some regularity in Mexico. Rape and killing committed by federal police is virtually unheard of in the United States but is not uncommon in Mexico. The at-whim appropriation of ranches and land owned by ordinary people, wherein they are summarily forced out and sometimes killed in the process, does not occur in the U.S. but has occured many times in recent years in Mexico. The killing of people for their wallet and their shoes does in fact occur in U.S. ghettos ... In Mexico it happens on an order of magnitude greater scale.
Anyone who thinks these things don't spill over to tourists is naive. Which is why people who go visit Mexico need to be aware that they can't just rent a car and go driving around the country the way you would in other countries. You need to be aware of the risks that are involved. These risks are of a much different type and scale than you see in other countries. In Spain you can drive around with virtually zero risk of being attacked by armed bandits. In Mexico there are highways and roads where there is a real, tangible risk of this happening.
I would like to believe PV is still safe for a gringo like me. I visited it twice years back and it was fun and there was a 2.5 hour flight from LAX.
My GF and I thought about going but hesitated mainly because we couldn't find a direct flight/good price and the Pacific ocean in that part may not be that warm this time of year?
Fell in love with Cancun and now a no go zone now with dead bodies found in cars and recent problems in Playa Del Carmen.
I had read on trip advisor that there weren't noticeable Cartel problems around PV but who knows?
I would like to believe PV is still safe for a gringo like me.
I think it's been made clear that PV is safe. Even if there are cartel issues around there, they don't target tourists.
What I've been harping on is for people to be careful outside the tourist areas. Don't think that just because it was safe for you in PV you can go anywhere else with the same degree of safety. You don't need to be concerned about cartels.
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Originally Posted by Teckeeee
Fell in love with Cancun and now a no go zone now with dead bodies found in cars
Why a no-go zone? It's cartel-on-cartel violence. It's not directed to tourists.
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I had read on trip advisor that there weren't noticeable Cartel problems around PV but who knows?
There's only a few times you need to worry about cartels:
a) you are involved in their business
b) you stumble into an area where they are cultivating illicit crops
c) you are a judge, a policitian or a cop
d) you get in a bar fight with one of them
e) you are obstructing their business, either deliberately or inadvertently
f) you are in a restaurant or a club, one of them requests to dance with your girlfriend or wife, and you refuse
If you don't find yourself in any of the above categories, you don't need to worry about them.
Crime and safety is about probabilities. If you go walking down the streets of Oakland your chance of being a victim of crime is substantially higher than if you go walking down the streets of Sunnyvale. You might not fall victim on the particular occasion you find yourself in Oakland, but the risk is still the same.
There are many areas in Mexico where not only is the risk substantially higher than anywhere in the U.S., but the chance of justice happening is low to non-existent (unlike in the U.S. where diligent effort is made to capture and prosecute criminals, especially violent crime).
Furthermore, there is a substantial difference in the type of crime that occurs in Mexico versus the type of crime that occurs in the U.S. These differences are because Mexico does not have a high level of control of public safety the way the U.S. does. Highway attacks by armed groups is virtually unheard of in the United States but occurs with some regularity in Mexico. Rape and killing committed by federal police is virtually unheard of in the United States but is not uncommon in Mexico. The at-whim appropriation of ranches and land owned by ordinary people, wherein they are summarily forced out and sometimes killed in the process, does not occur in the U.S. but has occured many times in recent years in Mexico. The killing of people for their wallet and their shoes does in fact occur in U.S. ghettos ... In Mexico it happens on an order of magnitude greater scale.
Anyone who thinks these things don't spill over to tourists is naive. Which is why people who go visit Mexico need to be aware that they can't just rent a car and go driving around the country the way you would in other countries. You need to be aware of the risks that are involved. These risks are of a much different type and scale than you see in other countries. In Spain you can drive around with virtually zero risk of being attacked by armed bandits. In Mexico there are highways and roads where there is a real, tangible risk of this happening.
There is truth to some of these things, but I think it is being applied in much too broad a sense especially considering the original topic question.
Places to avoid in Mexico are places like Tepito at night in CDMX. I have friends who live there. They say not to go unless they escort us in. During the day, not so bad. Just take the usual pickpocket precautions. There are also highways to avoid. You want to be careful between San Cristobal de las Casas and Palenque in Chiapas and generally you drive the long way around. You don't want to drive between the border and Ciudad Victoria in Tamaulipas lately. Probabilities are higher of serious problems.
However, traveling to Jalisco by vehicle is not a very high probability of problem according to all of my sources, many of whom RV down this way on a regular basis and combined have racked up millions of miles in Mexico. Stick to the cuotas, drive during the daylight hours. Even the 'mordita' seems to have become more rare with higher wages for policia and more enforcement of discipline for police who misbehave.
If you look at the big picture - actual statistics of violent crimes against tourists, you will find that it is very safe to travel in Mexico. You are an far far far more likely to be injured in a traffic accident or drown than be the victim of a violent assault. When a tourist is killed in Mexico it makes national headlines. When locals are killed in the US it often doesn't even make the local papers.
For the average tourist in PV, there are many more important things to worry about. Undertows, crossing the street, timeshare sharks.
There is truth to some of these things, but I think it is being applied in much too broad a sense especially considering the original topic question.
I agree, we cannot talk broadly. When talking about crime, we need to talk about specific locations.
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For the average tourist in PV, there are many more important things to worry about. Undertows, crossing the street, timeshare sharks.
Agreed.
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