Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Good post and I agree with you 100 %. Why are not Mexicans trying harder to right the wrongs in their own country rather that fleeing across the border ? So many of the jobs have gone south, there isnt much left here.
Some one recently was telling me that he was over in Juarez and a former well-to-do neighbhorhood was like a ghost town. He said businesses were boarded up, shut down, expensive houses are abandoned, sitting empty with for sale signs. Joblessness and despair of course are rising fast -- the very people with the money to spend and invest are packing up the fastest, headed to the USA of course.
I admire the fewer and fewer people of that city who are trying so hard to save it, not give up on it. I wish I could believe it won't be a losing battle for them.
Do you people have some problem with your reading comprehension skills? As I have outlined in previous posts:
I do not lambast the US.
I do not praise Mexico.
And, dear Malamute and Annie A, I was legally employed by a major city in the US for many decades, I paid taxes in the US and continue to have US taxes deducted from my retirement checks. If you can neither read nor think before you post unfounded criticisms of me, I can't take you seriously. Actually, the question of my citizenship has never come up, and I'm under no obligation to present a passport before posting to this site, but chances are that I was legally working and paying taxes in El Paso before some participants on this forum were born. This nonsense that I am suddenly "fleeing Mexico" and polluting the ethnic purity of the US makes me wonder if you people get out much. You have made many false assumptions about me, and all of them are quite beside the point of my fishing for your bright ideas on how to end the bloodshed in Juarez. Anybody so simple-minded as to think that pointing out the common news that the US is the world's chief consumer of illicit drugs constitutes "lambasting the US" needs to take a refresher course in reason and logic.
Please try to read and understand the following before you make any more absurd comments about me, or before you further engage in misquoting me. It's really difficult to engage in intelligent dialogue with people who can neither read nor listen nor think, but I'll continue to make some efforts.
Before we go on, let me clarify a couple of things. I lived in the US many years, worked legally in the US for many years. paid taxes in the US, and continue to pay taxes to the US. I have no idea what sensitivities could possibly have seen any of my posts as "lambasting the US." I have done no more than point out the commonly known fact that the US is the WORLD's leading consumer of illicit drugs. If that is "lambasting the US," every reputable newscaster and newspaper in the world has "lambmasted" the US.
I can see that many of you have done no more than briefly scan a couple of lines of my posts and you have obviously missed the many unflattering things I have said about Mexico. I am not here to wave the flag of any nation. I am not here to indulge in any purely gratuitous offensive writing against the US. I, too, am a strong advocate of making Mexico livable for Mexicans. However, the fact remains that Juarez is not only unfit for most people to make a decent living, it is downright dangerous to tend to such daily needs as grocery shopping. This is not "lambasting" Juarez. It is a statement of fact. I have attended the funerals of friends and relatives here, and hear the cracking of gunfire across the wall from my back patio.
I am a retired employee of a major US city, and US taxes are deducted from my retirement checks. Taxes were deducted from those checks for decades while I was employed in the US. Please don't trouble yourselves with undue concern that yet another "new" immigrant will be entering your country if I move to El Paso. I was living in El Paso probably before many of you were born. And, yes, I was paying taxes. I still am.
You are very sloppy and inattentive readers if you have not noticed my criticisms of Mexico, and you are in a state of denial if you think that repeating the common news that the US is the world's leading consumer of drugs is my way of "lambasting the US."
Too few of you folks are reading the posts before you respond to them. You see my name and assume that I do nothing but speak negatively of the US while having nothing but praise for Mexico. I have remarked that Mexico has an unforgivably ignorant middle class, a shameful excuse for an educational system, and that the absentee mayor of Juarez makes remarks about local social problems that any idiot could have told him over the past several decades. If you see that as exuberant patriotic praise for Mexico and Juarez, you need to get some help with your reality orientation.
Again, for those of you who have some problem with reading skills, I am not interested in the comparative virtues and vices of the US and Mexico. I am only interested in ending the bloodshed.
I don't post as often as I used to because I've noticed that most responses are mindless reactions to things other participants think I am and think I've said - rather than responses to who I actually am and what I've actually said.
You do seem to have grasped that I am opposed to the war on drugs, but you're a little shaky on understanding that this opposition is shared by almost all first world countries. None of you have clearly addressed the issue of greatest importance to me: How do we end the bloodshed?
None of you seem aware that drugs are being bought and sold all over the world without anybody's firing a shot. So, to assume that selling drugs necessitates blowing the brains out of several thousand people is a bit goofy. None of you seem aware that this bloodshed has not made a dent in the drug trade. So long as there is illegal demand and there is better money to be made in an illegal drug trade, the whole business will remain in the murky underground of criminality. And that, friends, is why so many lives are being lost. As we speak, people in Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris, London, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and all other major cities are buying and selling drugs. They are not, however, suffering the slaughter of their citizens. That, friends, is the sort of issue I want to address.
For the umpteenth time, I will repeat that I am not in the least interested in discussing the comparative virtues and vices of the US and Mexico. It is commonly known that Mexico is, in many ways, an impoverished mess where, just to keep us thinking, the world's richest man is a resident citizen. It is also commonly known that the US is the world's leading consumer of drugs. And, until I came to this forum, I thought it was commonly known that it takes two to tango. Nobody can sell drugs unless somebody is buying drugs. To my bewilderment and exasperation, some of you people think that this simple observation is somehow a purely gratuitous insult to the US. I'm not sure how long I can continue to attempt dialogue with such mindless reactionaries.
If you disagree with my opposition to the war on drugs, go ahead and disagree. But maintain a sane focus. Nothing about my opposition to the war on drugs constitutes an insult to your country. There are people in the US who agree with me, and there are people in the US who don't. You are all entitled to your own views, but don't turn them into some bizarre distortion of my words and thoughts by interpreting everything I say as anti-American. I am neither anti-American nor anti-Mexican, but I exercise my freedom to call the shots as I see them, and I certainly have a right to quote such facts as naming the world's largest consumer of illicit drugs.
And, please, children, quit harping on how you feel so special as "tax payers." We are all taxpayers, and I pay the same percentage of taxes to your country as you do, even though I am not currently living in the US. If anybody should be complaining about being a taxpayer, it should be me. But it so happens that I have no objection to paying taxes to the country where I worked. I believe in taxation. I also believe that we would all benefit if drugs were legalized - and taxed. That, friends, is not "anti-American." That would mean that more money would go to the public coffers of the US that could be used, among other ways, to educate people on the dangers of drugs, or used for the treatment of those who are not responding to education. And I'm talking about the public coffers of the US, where my taxes are deducted from my checks.
If you folks will please read this and show some indication that you understand it, I'll continue to attempt honest discussion with you. Otherwise, talking to you is like trying to discuss quantum mechanics with ducks. Not a very rewarding exercise.
Good post and I agree with you 100 %. Why are not Mexicans trying harder to right the wrongs in their own country rather that fleeing across the border ? So many of the jobs have gone south, there isnt much left here.
Dear Annie,
If you were hungry or having to live as a moving target, you might understand why people leave areas where they suffer such circumstances. I totally agree that it would be far better, far more reasonable, for Mexico to be made livable for Mexicans. However, that cannot be achieved "from the bottom up." Just as the ever-increasing numbers of unemployed Americans are unable to correct the national and global problems resulting in their joblessness and the loss of their homes, the impoverished Mexican is hardly in a position to correct the systemic ills of the Mexican government and economy. His first consideration is to eat and feed his family by whatever means necessary.
If your chief concern is with undocumented workers in the US, you should talk to the American employers who hire the undocumented workers. If your chief concern is with the improvement of Mexico, you should voice your concerns to the President and high officials of government. I you have good ideas for Juarez, you should voice them to our imbecilic absentee mayor. I, too, would like to hear your ideas, but as a mere man in the street, another of the city's millions of moving targets, you can't seriously believe that I'm in a position to bring about dramatic national or municipal changes. You know very well that American citizens can do very little about an administration they don't like. At best, they can vote and hope that their views and wishes aren't outnumbered by the opponents, then they most hope that the officials they elect keep their campaign promises once in office.
Please show some more solid reality orientation in your posts. It's difficult to reason with people who are divorced from reality.
You could also benefit from some courses in remedial geography. US jobs have not "gone south" so much as they have gone East to China, India, and other places where labor is cheaper and standards are lower. The US as well as Mexico have lost many jobs to Asia.
Do you people have some problem with your reading comprehension skills? As I have outlined in previous posts:
I do not lambast the US.
I do not praise Mexico.
But -- if all the people like you with money and education abandon Juarez then what becomes of it?
The very people who are needed to create jobs, bring knowledge and stability are packing up as fast as they can.
I sense you don't want to come to the USA because you really desire to become an American, part of the American people but that is the reason for immigration in my opinion. Immigration should be about wanting to become a real part of another country, another people.
But say all the people unhappy in Mexico now are allowed the quick and easy way out - they can all move to El Paso, I don't know what about jobs since the job situation in the USA is not good at all - but then Juarez? What then for those who didn't have the money to find a quick apartment or house in El Paso? What becomes of them?
Well -- no one is saying it's an easy solution. I can see why so many are quitting - abandoning Juarez and the USA offers so much in the way of material wealth, I can see why that's the obvious answer. The bad thing is that only worsens the situation in Juarez and when Juarez collapses, how does that affect all of Mexico? Not just Mexico but what does the collapse of Juarez mean for El Paso - and it seems El Paso is going to be yours and many's future.
It's probably too late now. It seems everyone has packed up and moved to El Paso already. I hear the buildings are boarded up, shops are closed. Someone told me that the Pronaf area looks like a burned out ghost town. I think once over here, the people of Juarez will settle in quickly - they already know the malls and the nice stores. They'll never go home again.
Jobs in El Paso I suppose won't be a problem at all - in spite of over 10% unemployment. There's always government help for those who can't find work. Somehow El Paso will be able to absorb as many as can make it over. Those left behind in Juarez will just have to make do somehow.
I don't know if that overly self-righteous, self-agrandizing diatribe was a direct attack on me or my post, Juan, but I never actually said that you were lambasting the U.S. for x reason. I was responding to malamute's comments. I've met many Juarenses (Cousins included) that are 'patriotic', but send their kids to El Paso schools, go shopping, fill up on gas, have their kids born in El Paso, etc.
For all practical purpouses, we probably agree on a lot of things.... like the fact that this is a two nation issue. We just have different solutions for it.
But the discussion ensues: Let's say that we DO legalize drugs. (God forbid) What now? What will happen to all the foot soldiers running around? The gangs. All those youngsters who have been conditioned to violence. You think they'll put their arms down and go work in the maquilas for $60 a week? They got a taste of the good life, and easy (albeit dangerous) money.... how do you address that? Moreover, you have a nation getting poorer (yes, poorer) and more destitute every day... how is legalization going to help.
Yes, U.S. drug laws mirror the prohibition laws in the 30's, but the big difference is that, the violence and criminality element exists in Mexico regardless of drugs. The kindapping wave that took Mexico City by storm wasn't, at least directly, related to drugs.
The problem is severe inequality in Mexico that's rooted in a 500 year old caste system. There's no social mobility, so there's severe destitution running throughout the whole country. You yourself said it... $60 bucks a week in ANY city in Mexico isn't enough to live on, yet it's the going wage. And that's a problem that is horribly difficult to fix and needs to be attacked from a number of angles: education, taxation, incentives for parents to maintain their children in school. But the biggest underlying problem is CULTURE. We have a culture of poverty, a culture of apathy and a culture of just... adapting to circumstances instead of changing them.
And changing the culture in a place like Mexico requires a rather Draconian policy system. And then, at some point, we might have a discussion of: "What is better, economic and social security, or freedom"
And to AnnieA, .... well, I am just speechless. After reading relatively intelligent posts, reading your one line post was like nails on a chalkboard. Take a short History of Mexico class at your local community college before posting on the Mexico board. And read the sticky from the forum moderator... immigration issues are to be discussed on city data's immigration forum. Or in simpler terms that you might understand... go away.
JoeAldo, I believe it was Malamute who was rutted on the themes of my "lambasting" the US, and bemoaning the fact that he is a member of some exclusive club known as "taxpayers." But, my message was to anybody under the false impression that I am anti-American or under the equally false impression that I don't pay taxes to the US.
Since I'm on this forum to discuss intelligent ways to end the bloodshed in Juarez, I have been disappointed by the focus on my being Mexican and the apparent concern that I have considered moving from Juarez to El Paso. I mentioned the consideration in the context of having lost a family member and some close friends, and I confessed that I was becoming burnt out and suffering frayed nerves from hearing the frequent crackling and popping of gunfire behind the wall of my back patio. Some people need only check the flow of traffic before crossing a busy street; I need to also listen for gunfire before opening my door to leave the house.
Under these circumstances, and SINCE I HAVE ALSO BEEN A LONG TERM RESIDENT OF EL PASO and other US cities, I considered going back to El Paso or some other nearby city WHERE I HAVE PREVIOUSLY RESIDED, PAYED TAXES, and BEEN A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITIES. (Caps are for the benefit of Malamute, who seems concerned that I will be yet another new arrival to his personal domain, and who fears that I may further corrupt the ethnic purity of his empire, and who further feels that it's high time I shared membership in his group of taxpayers - even though I have been a member of that group for over half a century.)
When I expressed the personal losses I suffered here in Juarez, and expressed consideration of leaving, I was hoping that these personal notes would be read by intelligent and compassionate human beings who would realize that under my circumstances, they, too, would probably be running far ahead of me to get out of Juarez. As for my staying here to improve the situation, how would you suggest I do that? I'm pushing seventy, and hardly in condition to engage in revolutionary activity.
But, please, don't become unduly concerned that I will need the social services of the pristine and innocent public of El Paso. I will be receiving the same income from my retirement that I would receive here or anywhere else. I will not be a threat to "your" jobs, if, in fact, there are any jobs to be had in the US. Manufacturing jobs have moved abroad, primarily to Asia. Technical support jobs are being done by our friends in India, who can answer phones and give misinformation more cheaply than can their counterparts in the US.
But, don't despair. Moving to El Paso was only a passing consideration, so it may not come to pass, and none of you will be unduly burdened by my presence.
And, now realizing that I'm not talking to especially intelligent or compassionate human beings, I will try to take greater care to avoid making any further personal comments. I don't want to dedicate too many paragraphs to explaining that I am a taxpayer, and that I would like to see improvements in Mexico, and that I would like to see better relations and understanding between the US and Mexico. Having said all this ten or twenty times, I still get preposterous criticisms from some forum participants accusing me of being a parasitical opponent of truth, justice, and the American Way.
And, off topic, but just out of curiosity, has anybody on this forum ever heard of the status of dual citizenship? Before making assumptions about my "legality" and my allegiances, you might want to consider possibilities other than leaping to the ignorant and ethnocentric false conclusions that some of the participants here seem determined to believe.
But, I had actually hoped that some participants here would deal with the issue of the local bloodshed without first considering who is or who is not a taxpayer. I had hoped that some people on this forum were aware that drugs are being bought and sold all over the world by people who never fire a shot. I had hoped that some people on the forum were aware that I am hardly unique in seeing the "war on drugs" as a bloody, expensive failure. It is a point of view shared by most of the world. It's your right to disagree with it, but, please, be aware that it has become the prevailing attitude of many nations.
Also, please understand that those of us who would decriminalize the drug trade are NOT advocates of drug consumption. We simply look at the bloody realities of the war on drugs and conclude that it has failed. On seeing that, we suggest that it's high time to consider other approaches that do not necessitate such expensive and horrible loss of life. This view is not uniquely my own. It prevails in Europe, and is gaining popularity among those bright enough to see that the war on drugs has been a dismal failure.
Again, if you feel that the "war on drugs" is a good and effective fight, I welcome you to come to Juarez and feel the consequence of your convictions. You seem to think it's a good idea for me to walk the streets of this city, so why don't you demonstrate the courage of your convictions and join me for a couple of months? Although you feel distressed that I am not adequately noble about the continued risking of my life, you seem oddly reluctant to join me here where I live where you could prove to me and yourselves that you believe the "war on drugs" is a good thing.
What's the problem, my saintly friends? Does the prospect of burying your friends and neighbors while you stand ready to duck and dodge the bullets make you nervous? Or is it just that you think an old man like me is better prepared to face death than you are? Come on! You believe in the war on drugs, so stand up and join the fight where you can prove the courage of your convictions. I'll be happy to guide you to areas where your courage can be demonstrated. I'll watch from a distance, since I now consider it incumbent upon you to prove the strength and validity of your beliefs. You're a hundred percent behind the war I'm not. So I have nothing to prove. I've already done my hard time in the streets of Juarez. It's your turn.
And, if your courage is inadequate to save your life in the battle, I'll add you to the long list of people I need to visit in the local cemeteries. We could engrave on your tombstone, "Here Lies Joe of the US who gave his life to the war on drugs." As we read the words, we will know that residents of major cities all over the world are buying and consuming drugs, but, after all, it's the courage of your convictions that counts. You'll be fondly remember by those who share your beliefs.
Yes, U.S. drug laws mirror the prohibition laws in the 30's, but the big difference is that, the violence and criminality element exists in Mexico regardless of drugs. The kindapping wave that took Mexico City by storm wasn't, at least directly, related to drugs.
The problem is severe inequality in Mexico that's rooted in a 500 year old caste system. There's no social mobility, so there's severe destitution running throughout the whole country. You yourself said it... $60 bucks a week in ANY city in Mexico isn't enough to live on, yet it's the going wage. And that's a problem that is horribly difficult to fix and needs to be attacked from a number of angles: education, taxation, incentives for parents to maintain their children in school. But the biggest underlying problem is CULTURE. We have a culture of poverty, a culture of apathy and a culture of just... adapting to circumstances instead of changing them.
And changing the culture in a place like Mexico requires a rather Draconian policy system. And then, at some point, we might have a discussion of: "What is better, economic and social security, or freedom"
(I modified JoelAldo's quote for brevity. My apologies if I in any way modified the intention or substances of his comments. If I in any way distorted his thoughts, I invite being corrected.)
JoelAldo, I was so perturbed by the insensitivity, the erroneous image of who I am, and the offensive implications of Malamute's remarks that I failed to express my appreciation for your comments.
I'm not even confident that Draconian measures would improve the situation in Mexico. It is a "top down" government and an ingrained caste system that will be as difficult to end as would be ending the consumption of rice and tea in China and Japan. What measures, Draconian or otherwise, did you have in mind?
Although the necessary changes seem overwhelmingly difficult to implement, I'm not sure why economic and social advances should entail a loss of freedoms. In any event, the typical Mexican in the current social and economic environment has no freedoms to lose.
Education in Mexico is so bad that I'm not sure parents could gain much by keeping their children in substandard schools where they receive substandard educations. You have probably noticed that few Mexicans can write a paragraph in Spanish without making a dozen errors in spelling and orthography. And I'm talking about prep-school graduates.
Also, it is not enough for education to be free. If education is free, but the student must work or do something to provide himself and family members with food and shelter, it's like telling the school candidate "you can have a free Rolls Royce, and all you have to do is find the means to retrieve it from the top of Mount Everest."
Of course, the dilemma is that no matter how much the quality of schools and teachers is improved, it will do no good if few people have the wherewithal to attend the schools.
Many situations like this, the poor quality and inaccessibility of schools, the lack of jobs in general, and the even greater absence of jobs that pay a living wage, and the medieval attitudes and beliefs of the people all conspire to create a situation strongly resistant to change or improvement of any kind.
My assessment of the Mexican Revolution is that it failed - miserably. I have no reason to believe that a second revolution would do any better. As is far too common with revolutions, they do nothing more than succeed in replacing one group of tyrants with another. Although there were brilliant idealists among the leaders of the revolution, their ideals were brushed aside almost as soon as the revolution was ostensibly "won." And the chaos of the various revolutionary bands lacked any coherent strategy, and lacked any clear plans for how any revolutionary ideals would be implemented.
Since the reality is that Mexico has a top-down government system - no matter how often they may go through some of the motions of democratic process - I'm afraid that improvements will also have to be made from the top down. The wealthy and educated leaders of Mexico need to be awakened and appropriately embarrassed by the failure of their nation and the failure of their government to be civilized enough to accommodate its own citizens.
Education in Mexico is inexcusably bad. If this is in part due to the governing power's desire to maintain an ignorant citizenry, it will inevitably fail. Technology is making it increasingly difficult to keep people uninformed. The people of Mexico know they are getting a raw deal, but, as you say, too many are willing to accept this as "God's will." They adapt to unacceptable conditions rather than attempt to improve them.
For many generations, with the full knowledge and approval of the Mexican government, it has been common practice for many to depend upon precarious incomes from low-level jobs in the US. To my bewilderment, many of our politicians seem to take perverse pride in encouraging their citizens to leave the country to earn a few dollars. How baffling that they don't respond with shame and greater efforts to make Mexico livable for Mexicans. They even go to the extreme of pretending that sending their citizens out of the country to obtain some income constitutes some sort of powerfully nationalistic move for the greater glory of Mexico. I could get in trouble by suggesting that such leaders should be shot, so I won't suggest it.
Of course, this absurd practice could not continue were it not for the compliance of unethical American employers. I suppose some of the simple-minded on this forum will consider that observation to be "anti-American," but I'm losing patience with trying to appease the feeble minded. If it needs repeating, it takes two to tango. To the person of normal human intelligence, it is rather self-evident that there would be no undocumented employees in American UNLESS such employees were being hired by Americans. It is beyond me why I have to explain the obvious logic of this observation to nominally educated Americans, but I always get arguments apparently based on some sort of false patriotism that dictates that it is impossible for American employers to do anything unethical. Please. Let's get real. People won't work if nobody hires them. Do I really need to explain that to people? Heaven help me.
But, back to the drug wars: As in all businesses, there are people at the bottom, usually doing the most tedious but most necessary tasks of the enterprise. Neither the typical street dealer nor the typical customer of the drug market is among the rich and famous. And, for those who have trouble grasping reality, it is hardly surprising that people living in a place where there are few jobs and even fewer jobs that pay a living wage are drawn to making money by becoming street dealers. Those of you who feel you stand on such high moral ground that you would never engage in such activity have obviously never gone long without food or shelter.
Where people cannot make a living legally, it is hardly surprising that they attempt to make a living illegally. They will illegally sell drugs or they will illegally cross borders. People in need will do whatever it takes to satisfy their needs. This simple fact is apparently beyond the comprehension of the comfortably housed and well fed citizens of El Paso and other US cities where some people can still have jobs and make acceptable livings. They stand on high moral ground, but their moral ground is elevated on a mound of money and benefits that many people in Mexico simply don't have.
Well, I have already said all this in ten or twenty different ways. I suppose some intellectually challenged participant on this forum will assume that my every point is somehow "anti-American" and will thereby dismiss and invalidate every point.
It would be refreshing to receive an intelligent response, but I won't hold my breath.
I do, however, appreciate your comments, JoelAldo. I'm not sure why you support the war on drugs, and I don't understand how you can see that it is accomplishing anything, but your observations are accurate and well-informed. I appreciate that more than you'll ever know. Some participants on this forum force me to double my dosage of blood pressure meds, so your intelligent comments are not only good for my psyche, but benefit my cardiovascular condition.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,435,824 times
Reputation: 1463
Just a kind reminder, this is a forum and we exchange ideas, sometimes our different points of view can clash and things get intense, which is normal, but please remember to be respectful and don't take things too personally.
All the forum members are respectable persons, and I'm proud to say that most of the debate here has always been respectful making my job as the moderator much easier but please don't take the points of view from others as personal they are entitled to their opinion as much as you. I wouldn't like to close a thread that is very important imho with all the violence that is devastating Juarez at the moment.
Education in Mexico is so bad that I'm not sure parents could gain much by keeping their children in substandard schools where they receive substandard educations. You have probably noticed that few Mexicans can write a paragraph in Spanish without making a dozen errors in spelling and orthography. And I'm talking about prep-school graduates.
Education in Mexico is inexcusably bad. If this is in part due to the governing power's desire to maintain an ignorant citizenry, it will inevitably fail. Technology is making it increasingly difficult to keep people uninformed. The people of Mexico know they are getting a raw deal, but, as you say, too many are willing to accept this as "God's will." They adapt to unacceptable conditions rather than attempt to improve them.
Now I'm probably going to really push up your blood pressure but I disagree with you that education in Mexico is so terrible. Have you seen the writing of these same kids in the USA? Or of American kids lately?
I actually believe Mexicans are educated -- even the poor Mexicans often show a knowledge or at least curiousity of other countries that you don't see in Americans. I'm referring to the Mexicans in Mexico that is -- you see them in coffee shops, on buses and trains reading the editorial section of a newspaper, they love to discuss world events, politics and what not. Even the poor ones who for whatever reason couldn't get too far in school often have a pretty good sense of world events. Often where many Americans prefer to discuss the latest television reality show, Mexicans (in Mexico) want to discuss all kinds of stuff like philosophy, religion, politics.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,435,824 times
Reputation: 1463
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Now I'm probably going to really push up your blood pressure but I disagree with you that education in Mexico is so terrible. Have you seen the writing of these same kids in the USA? Or of American kids lately?
I actually believe Mexicans are educated -- even the poor Mexicans often show a knowledge or at least curiousity of other countries that you don't see in Americans. I'm referring to the Mexicans in Mexico that is -- you see them in coffee shops, on buses and trains reading the editorial section of a newspaper, they love to discuss world events, politics and what not. Even the poor ones who for whatever reason couldn't get too far in school often have a pretty good sense of world events. Often where many Americans prefer to discuss the latest television reality show, Mexicans (in Mexico) want to discuss all kinds of stuff like philosophy, religion, politics.
IMHO the worst problem of Mexico is the outlook of things, while I disagree with the idea of all mexicans having a good sense of world events, because if you heard a conversation in the Metro of Mexico city, or in the streets you'd see that most people in Mexico are discussing soccer games, box, telenovelas, and stuff like that.
However I do believe that a lot of Mexico's woes have to do with the attitude of people regarding our luck, the government is like this too, the lack of confidence in our own country is so grave that the government usually prefers to hire foreign firms to do things they need, be it infrastructure, software, etc this clearly sends a message of lack of faith in our own country, and a lot of people is like this we tend to see the negative side of things too much, and with this I'm not saying that mexico is a paradise, actually right now the problem of violence specially in Juarez is something that can't be dismissed, some other cities in Mexico are in this situation too, something else that disappoints us Mexicans is that those in power seem more interested in abusing the power or fighting against each other than adressing the real issues this country has, all of this breaks the spirit of many people and they believe things won't ever change, I disagree because I've seen many positive changes in Mexico during my lifetime, however these changes have been sluggishly slow and haven't been exempt of growing pains. Now the situation in Juarez is something completely different it is hard to live there and be strong with the things that are happening now.
I have friends there who'll stay there no matter what I admire them for their courage, but I also know people that have seen their business attacked because they refused to pay the tax, after that they thought it was enough and moved to Mexico city, but there are others who have business in Juarez or family there so it's easier to relocate to el Paso, which is even nearer for them than Chihuahua, the state capital.
I still believe that it was Calderon's fault for stirring the hornets nest, we never saw this level of violence before and I don't believe that the cost of human lives for this war is worth it, many people support prohibition because they have never suffered the loss of a dear one personally, or seen the devastating effects the war on drugs, much worse than the "evil" they want to fight.
I don't believe either that if drugs were legalized violence or crime would disappear, but it would prove a devastating blow for them, because nothing in the world would provide them with the revenue that drug trade does, but Mexico can't go alone with this, specially when we have a neighboor that generates 60% of the drug income of the world, I wonder if those who call Mexico a narco state are blind or that naive to believe that the tentacles of narcos haven't touched the country that has the highest consumption of drugs in the world and who is responsible of filling the narcos arks with 60% of their revenue, the US is the biggest narco state of the world, or at least it's major sponsor and because of this innocent people are dying every day, the Mexican government can't possibly generate as much income as them by taxes, and these guys are much more organized than the government as well.
what if things get worse and the violence starts in the USA, will this make those zealots in power reconsider the futility of this war on drugs, or they won't mind as they didn't mind the lifes lost in America's military adventures?
Unfortunately most people with the power to do something about it still bleieves that it is a good idea to continue this war on drugs, and most of the population just supports them because they buy the anti-drug propaganda, but the truth is that most soft drug users won't ruin up their lifes or their families because of their marijuana smoking habit, etc, unfortunately as drugs continue to be a taboo, most people really ignores what drugs really are, what effects do they really cause, etc if they did people in favor of prohibition would be in the minority.
I still wonder, what is the real reason behind the war on drugs, if the war of Iraq was supposedly against terrorism but the true motives were oil, what can be expected of the war on drugs, who is becoming rich at the expense of those who are dying like flies in some cities?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
