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I find that a big problem with the loudest voices on these issues is that they "feel," but don't really understand. In my post, I summarized what the top researchers in the field think - those who have been on the ground both in Mexico and in the US. Pick up a copy of Return to Aztlan and it'll really open your eyes.
In the end, you can build the biggest wall you want along the Rio Grande, but it will not stop migration until the root issues are solved. People will find a way. Tourist visas, for instance. A huge portion of undocumented workers are in the US on tourist visas, but overstay them. It's easy to do.
Last edited by Travelling fella; 06-11-2010 at 05:55 PM..
The merits and drawbacks of unions are highly debatable, but not suited to this post. Nevertheless (and I am not a joker or a comedian), I am strongly opposed to unions, and would like my work judged competitively, consistent with the U.S. principles of a free market economy, rather than by artificially protecting my job in order that I might simply become complacent – and divisive within my company.
Last edited by Travelling fella; 06-11-2010 at 05:55 PM..
I find that a big problem with the loudest voices on these issues is that they "feel," but don't really understand. In my post, I summarized what the top researchers in the field think - those who have been on the ground both in Mexico and in the US. Pick up a copy of Return to Aztlan and it'll really open your eyes.
In the end, you can build the biggest wall you want along the Rio Grande, but it will not stop migration until the root issues are solved. People will find a way. Tourist visas, for instance. A huge portion of undocumented workers are in the US on tourist visas, but overstay them. It's easy to do.
Oh you can never stop migration just like how you can never stop murders, robberies, assaults, illegal drug use etc. But walls along with increase border patrols/add military to the border can significantly reduce illegal border crossings.
The goals with all laws and their enforcement is to minimize what ever the law makes illegal.
But in reality, Texas fought for it's independence (just as Mexico had fought for it's independence from Spain) and the rest was purchased not stolen.
It is the belief however of many Mexicans living in the USA that they are here for a "reconquista", they are here to "take back" land for their country so they see it as their patriotic duty to come and run off the despised Americans. Even in places like Chicago which was never under the rule of Spain.
American citizens are the ones too lazy to work, and sit in the unemployment office, collect foodstamps, on and on.
Illegal immigrants aren't 'stealing' welfare from anyone...they are the ones working the jobs, while most of our poorer U.S. citizens turn to drug dealing, hanging out, section 8 and all the rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by db108108
Not a Mexican citizen, but a Mexico scholar. I just wanted to add that migration is much more complicated than just a simple premise of "it's bad here." Things are bad in some areas, but overall, Mexico is on the top tier of nations in the developing world. What complicates matters is having the richest country in the world on the other side of the border. Simply put, migration from Mexico to the US is much easier than from India to the US, even though India is much, much poorer than Mexico. That's essentially why migration figures are so high. Here are a few other theories gleaned from my research:
1. Migration networks. Before a migration pattern is established, the poorest don't migrate because they can't afford to do so. Once a community exists in the US, migration is a much more viable option. Life is very difficult for the first migrants of any given community, but once the network is established, some may go not because they can't earn a living in their community, but because there's much more money to be made in the US than Mexico. The US has seen a flood of migrants in the 1990s and 2000s because many different areas had finally established their networks (not just in the traditional sending states of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Michoacan) and migration was easier.
2. It's expected. Especially in a family with a history of migration, the family comes to depend on those funds. It was shown in the study Return to Aztlan (which focused on several communities in Jalisco) that once an income from migration is established, the family gives up farming, or stops trying to make a viable living in Mexico. Migration begets more migration. In some communities, especially those with long-established migration networks, migration is a rite-of-passage.
3. Relative deprivation: Migration greatly effects communities, especially those members who don't migrate. The flood of American dollars drives up the cost of living to the point where people are almost forced to migrate. Also implicit here is "keeping up with the Sanchez's," meaning that people are envious of the material possessions of others and migrate to have similar lifestyles. This again ties into the networks; migration is not easy, but a network makes it viable. So if your neighbor is able to afford a new roof for his home and a new truck, and migration IS an option for you, why not go?
These are the three basic theories of migration. The rich and the solid middle class generally don't migrate (illegally), so you're probably not going to run across many undocumented migrants on these forums. I highly recommend picking up a copy of Return to Aztlan (which is about $10 on Amazon); it's an excellent sociological study that lays many of these issues out.
But in reality, Texas fought for it's independence (just as Mexico had fought for it's independence from Spain) and the rest was purchased not stolen.
It is the belief however of many Mexicans living in the USA that they are here for a "reconquista", they are here to "take back" land for their country so they see it as their patriotic duty to come and run off the despised Americans. Even in places like Chicago which was never under the rule of Spain.
I'm always reluctant to disagree w/ my CD friends but ---- The main difference being that Mexico was *Taking Back* their land which Spain had invaded, whereas Texas was *originally* a part of Mexico - never part of the USA.. Therefore in the case of Texas, it was, in fact, just a rather large land grab not a fight for independence. SarahSal
I would love to see the "reconquista" substantiated with some documentation. Is it perhaps just a few groups who feel this way rather than "many Mexicans"? An interesting, partly true myth to spice up media reports?
I'm always reluctant to disagree w/ my CD friends but ---- The main difference being that Mexico was *Taking Back* their land which Spain had invaded, whereas Texas was *originally* a part of Mexico - never part of the USA.. Therefore in the case of Texas, it was, in fact, just a rather large land grab not a fight for independence. SarahSal
I would love to see the "reconquista" substantiated with some documentation. Is it perhaps just a few groups who feel this way rather than "many Mexicans"? An interesting, partly true myth to spice up media reports?
Actually there was no country of Mexico until the Spaniards came. The Aztecs did not rule over the entire North American continent as is taught in Aztlan studies. They ruled over about a 35 mile radius near current day Mexico City, and they never ruled over the Comanches, Iroquois, Chippewa, Cherokees and so on. Never.
The former lands of Mayan and Aztecs and Tlaxcalans, and the Indians tribes of Mexico are now under Mexican rule, the former lands of the Comanches, Iroquois and so on are now under USA rule. The Aztecs never dominated the Comanches, they wouldn't have known of one another's existence.
Also there are extremely few "pure" Mexican Indians, even if they had ruled over the entire North American continent, that certainly doesn't apply to 95% of illegals.
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