Downtown and Brickell just as expensive as Manhattan for average residents? (Miami: to rent, insurance)

[hurricaneMan1992]

The argument is that the average resident in downtown Miami or Brickell still needs a car and gets paid less, hence, the cost of housing + transportation as a function of income is the same --or higher-- than living in Manhattan.

Miami at Manhattan Prices | Transit Miami
"AAA estimated that the average cost of car ownership in the United States in 2012 was roughly $9,000 for all cars and as much as $11,000-$12,000 for larger cars and SUVs. But that’s the average for the entire country. Costs can be far greater in places like Miami where insurance rates and parking costs are higher. The difference between a couple owning two cars and a couple that commutes by train or bicycle can be over $20,000 per year. That’s an additional $1,500-$2,000 per month that can go towards rent or a mortgage. And that’s the reason why living in downtown Miami and Brickell can be as costly as living in Manhattan."

"But all of this changes if we take the automobile out of the equation. If you can manage a car-free life, suddenly Miami becomes really affordable. The difference is that Manhattan is expensive because it has to be .... But Miami is expensive because we’ve made it that way."

The two caveats I can think of is that the average downtown or Brickell resident has more living space and building amenities than the average Manhattanite, and also the examples they use don't seem to account for NY and NYC income taxes. Parking is included for the average Brickellite too. But still, the fact that one can even make a coherent argument that Miami is as expensive or more expensive than Manhattan for the "average" (e.g., middle income) resident is remarkable...and a bit scary !

(the full "local affordability index" study from HUD is here I dare you to check out the western suburbs like Weston!!!)

[boxus]

BS from a bias source.

It does not cost anywhere near that much for a car, and if it did, it is because a person chose to spend more of their discretionary income on a nicer, more expensive car.

"But all of this changes if we take the automobile out of the equation. If you can manage a car-free life, suddenly Miami becomes really affordable. The difference is that Manhattan is expensive because it has to be .... But Miami is expensive because we’ve made it that way."

This does not even make sense. The entire article is BS. A very lame attempt at attacking cars.

What makes Miami (specifically Brickell) unaffordable for some is the $1800 a month rent for a 1/1, on top of having to have first, last, and security deposit up front. Considering a person usually has to have 3x gross pay to qualify, that is about $64k a year, almost twice the median income and three times the per capita income in Miami.

I also think it is ridiculous that the article seems to think the only reason people have a car is to get to/from work, ridiculous. Plus the article is all over the place; Miami like NYC and every other cities, has its very desirable areas all the way to its ghetto areas, yet the article seems to be cherry picking which areas to include to try to validate the opinion.

[unclealbertt]

Transit Miami has become a bunch of insufferable extremist

[FlyMIA]

Parking in downtown if your condo does not have parking is only $100-$150 a month. That is dirt cheap when compared to DC, NYC or Boston. Parking in NYC for a day is $100!

[Coconut1]

I agree that the story is full of holes.

I used to be a big fan of Transit Miami, but it has become somewhat of a fringe group. Little of what they report these days is balanced and it makes transit advocates as a whole look bad.

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by boxus

BS from a bias source.

It does not cost anywhere near that much for a car, and if it did, it is because a person chose to spend more of their discretionary income on a nicer, more expensive car.

"But all of this changes if we take the automobile out of the equation. If you can manage a car-free life, suddenly Miami becomes really affordable. The difference is that Manhattan is expensive because it has to be .... But Miami is expensive because we’ve made it that way."

This does not even make sense. The entire article is BS. A very lame attempt at attacking cars.
...
I also think it is ridiculous that the article seems to think the only reason people have a car is to get to/from work, ridiculous. Plus the article is all over the place; Miami like NYC and every other cities, has its very desirable areas all the way to its ghetto areas, yet the article seems to be cherry picking which areas to include to try to validate the opinion.

Whoa there...it is probably biased, as such studies generally are, but note the following:

1.) The cost of owning a car was estimated by AAA -- hardly an anti-car source!! That cost is the average for the entire US, and is higher in Miami due to insurance and repair costs.

Say you buy a $10k car cash and drive it 5 years. That's already $2k/year. Now add gas, say you drive very little, around 10k/year, at 30 mpg and $3.50/gal, that's still another $1200/year. Insurance add another $1-2k, depending on your driving record. Note that these estimates are very conservative for middle income Miamians and of course below AAA's estimates, but we're already at up to $5k/year, or equivalent around $400/month in rent for a VERY CONSERVATIVE estimate of car ownership. MOST Miamians will have a car loan with interest, drive more than $10k, ect, ect. Repairs, oil changes, parking, tickets, they add up too. MOST AVERAGE Brickellites I know are not driving around in $10k cars either.

What they did do wrong is assume 2 cars in some of there comparisons, which would be more the case for Weston than Brickell.

2.) In Manhattan, one does not only use public transportation for work, you use it to go everywhere!!! For the occasional trip that does require a car, you get a cab or a car share like Car2Go.

3.) The article compares Brickell to desirable neighborhoods in Manhattan--there was no "cherry picking" comparing ghettos to good neighborhoods.

So I think the article does have valid points, despite its flaws.

Remember, the comparison is between LOCAL affordability of AVERAGE residents, not residents who choose to live more affordability than average.

[boxus]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

1.) The cost of owning a car was estimated by AAA -- hardly an anti-car source!! That cost is the average for the entire US, and is higher in Miami due to insurance and repair costs.

Say you buy a $10k car cash and drive it 5 years. That's already $2k/year. Now add gas, say you drive very little, around 10k/year, at 30 mpg and $3.50/gal, that's still another $1200/year. Insurance add another $1-2k, depending on your driving record. Note that these estimates are very conservative for middle income Miamians and of course below AAA's estimates, but we're already at up to $5k/year, or equivalent around $400/month in rent for a VERY CONSERVATIVE estimate of car ownership. MOST Miamians will have a car loan with interest, drive more than $10k, ect, ect. Repairs, oil changes, parking, tickets, they add up too. MOST AVERAGE Brickellites I know are not driving around in $10k cars either.

I should have been clearer; it does not cost that much to own a car, unless a person chooses to spend discretionary income towards it. Anyone can own a car at a much cheaper cost per year, but they choose not to due to their own discretionary spending. The article is taking the AAA study, and implying that to own a vehicle, this is how much it costs, thus people are "forced" to pay this much to live in Miami, complete BS. I think the term for doing this is called an environmental fallacy.

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

3.) The article compares Brickell to desirable neighborhoods in Manhattan--there was no "cherry picking" comparing ghettos to good neighborhoods.

So I think the article does have valid points, despite its flaws.

Remember, the comparison is between LOCAL affordability of AVERAGE residents, not residents who choose to live more affordability than average.

No, the article goes from "Miami" to "Brickell", back and forth, and ignores the relative small size of Miami and ignores the huge areas around Miami that many people reside. Brickell is expensive, however, it is the msot expensive place in Miami (one of them at least), there are low cost areas in and around Miami. The article does not show these differences much, it has to assume Miami is built like NYC, in size and scope, for it to even start making its debate.

The entire article is just poorly written, I would have to sit here and create a 20 page essay just explaining how ridiculous it is on all levels.

[TraderNYC]

Florida does not have income taxes, keep that in mind, NY state income taxes and NYC city taxes are high.

[TraderNYC]

I just renewed my NY state drivers license and the fee was $130, most other states its like $30.

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by TraderNYC

Florida does not have income taxes, keep that in mind, NY state income taxes and NYC city taxes are high.

They (taxes in NYC) are not so high that they offset the cost of living in S. Florida, given local incomes (in S. Florida). Jobs pay MUCH less here, yet i can get a place to rent in one of the boroughs for the same amount i pay to rent here in Miami.