Do you think South Florida is diverse? (Miami, Havana: living, restaurants)

[UrbaneAspects]

One more thing to add...I certainly believe living in Miami can make one evolve into a racists or prejudice person. I believe that.

[Meerteekah]

Well, I've heard Yiddish, Hebrew, Russian, Brazilian, French/Creole, as well as the ever-present Spanish. Given that it's 60% + Hispanic here, and that this is a gateway city to Latin America, the fact that Spanish is the predominant "other" language is hardly a surprise, I'd think.

My husband is not a Latino and he has middling Spanish. He doesn't use it at work (just in restaurants and with my family). He has not had a problem finding work. I took a job where i made it clear I refused to use Spanish for work (ie, I put that on the application, that though I was Hispanic, my Spanish sucked, and I wouldn't rely on it). I had no problem getting work even being hard-headed about language.

Granted, "bilingual" is often noted as "preferred" for some jobs where, frankly, I think it's not fair to ask for it (ie, no legitimate need).

Decades ago in NYC, I remember my sister getting extra pay for being bilingual (way back when), cause that was a bonus. Here, it's not a "pay added", but a default sometimes. I don't think that's generally right. But I think that it's not a bad thing to learn the predominant second language, if one plans to live in a city with a huge immigrant population filled speakers of Spanish. It's like learning computer skills (spreadsheets, desktop publishing), because that makes it easier for you to get hired. It takes work, but it pays off.

And I say that as an immigrant who has lost her Spanish skills, and whose nieces and nephews, by a majority, have lost it, too. We speak in English. Think and write in English. Shoot, one of my degrees is in English. It's the newer arrivals and the old-timers who've had a hard time learning a new language (like my old folks, may they RIP). The rest of us assimilated. The second generation assimilates.

And those who move here, for good or ill, need to adapt to the reality: You may need to deal with Argentinian, Columbian, Venezuelan, Mexican, Dominican, etc Spanish-speakers (who are not ALL alike, because all our cultures are not the same, neither are our cuisines or our political persuasions). Whether as a banker, a realtor, a dentist, a doctor, a marketer, a salesperson, an interior decorator, a lawyer, etc, your patients and customers and clients and networking contacts will include a huge number of immigrants who speak a language other than English. My hubby, back when he had an upcoming trip to Brazil, learned a good amount of Portuguese in a short time in order to be a better rep for his company (and himself). He got a very warm response, because folks could see he was a white American male who had enough respect to take their language seriously.

Wanna impress your clients and bosses? Be flexible. Learn some Spanish. It's not arrogance. It's just reality. Just like coming from an Ivy league school gives you a leg up, or having a brother or father or mother in the industry you work in gives you an advantage, well knowing Spanish gives you a leg up in Miami.

Unfair? That's for philosophers. It's just how it is.

M

[educator1]

The mere fact that there is so much disagreement is a good indication that Miami (this thread seems to be referring to South Florida) is highly diverse. I live on South Beach and, walking on Lincoln Road today, I heard English, Spanish, Italian, French, German, Russian, Swedish (I think) and a few languages that I had no idea about in a five block area. Our friends are from all over South America and Europe, as well a a few of my native Miamian friends (of which I am one). I for one, enjoy the fact that this area has become so diverse, drawing from South America, the Caribbean, Europe and other areas. There is no "monoculture" here. A drive of a few miles will go through many distinctive cultural areas (Cuban to Haitian to Dominican to Brazilian, etc.).
Some of my fellow native miamians whom I grew up with who don't enjoy diversity are now located in the central part of the state (Ft. Pierce, Deland, Gainesville) with a more homogeneous population. That is as it should be. I don't live in Washington (the suburbs, at least, are diverse), for example because I hate cold weather.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by educator1

The mere fact that there is so much disagreement is a good indication that Miami (this thread seems to be referring to South Florida) is highly diverse.

It's also a good indication that it doesn't work very well...

Originally Posted by educator1

A drive of a few miles will go through many distinctive cultural areas (Cuban to Haitian to Dominican to Brazilian, etc.).

You also just proved how segregated the place is. If you go to a place like Dallas, Houston, Toronto or even Orlando or the neighboring counties in South Florida you won't encounter as many "enclaves" because different kinds of people actually tend to live in the same neighborhood semi-harmoniously or harmoniously. a

[crisp444]

Again, stop confusing "non-diverse" with "segregated" and "diverse" with "integrated." They are two different things. I don't care if a city is 25% Anglo / 25% Hispanic / 25% black / 25% Asian, it can still be totally, totally segregated. New York is extremely segregated and (I could show you stats to prove this in a DM if you want) it is overall MUCH more segregated than Miami. However, NY is hands down more diverse. I don't mean to be a broken record but as long as this thread is open, I'm going to keep repeating this until people get it right!

Example of a segregated city that is very diverse: 25% Anglo / 25% Hispanic / 25% black / 25% Asian, each group has its own neighborhood and the groups don't mix. Diverse city, completely SEGREGATED neighborhoods.

Example of non-diverse city that is very integrated: 10% Anglo / 90% Hispanic, each group living in neighborhoods that are 90% Hispanic and 10% Anglo. Non-diverse city, completely INTEGRATED neighborhoods.

[compelled to reply]

Segregated doesn't mean a place is diverse or not but if there is a lot of segregation that is a good sign that people don't intermingle and tend to go home to homogeneous enclaves. No, Miami is not as segregated as NYC but it also doesn't have the same broad range of cultures. Theoretically a multicultural society only works 95% well (100% is impossible) in a few places. Miami isn't one of them. It tends to work in mostly NEWER, oftentimes transient cities that attracted people from all over and don't have a lot of ethnic/wealth disparities.

[Meerteekah]

I think the fact that my former church here in Miami had dozens of ethnicities represented in regular attendance says something about diversity.

It's not a particular person's definition. Diverse indicates that the residents are from various places and ethnicities with an array of cusines and customs. Miami has residents that represent various continents, countries, languages, colors, religions, class levels, educational levels, and political ideologies. It may not be as diverse as a supermetropolis like NYC, but it certainly is diverse, and to say otherwise is, well, kinda dumb.

My neighborhood used to be overwhelmingly Jewish and Italian. While the Jewish/Israeli presence is still strong (the Itailan less so), I've seen an influx of Russian and Indian to the surrounding blocks. Now, my immediate neighbors (just on my block, nearby) include folks from Haiti, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Peru, Cuba, Venezuela, as well as Native-born blacks and whites--and that's just the few neighbors I know in proximity, not the block over or three streets down. The owner of my former fave magazine store nearby: Israeli immigrant. He bought the store not too long ago from a couple from India who immigrated here. My fave restaurants nearby are owned by 1. a Belgian, 2. a Bangladeshi couple and 3. a Syrian eatery. The local chicken place down the street--owned and run by Peruvian immigrants.

Religious diversity can be observed by opening up a religious directory to see we have New Age, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, Zoroastrian, Wiccan, etc.

Look at the varieties of cuisines in our restaurants. Heck, we have an Ethiopian restaurant that's very chic now.

I dunno, but that all adds up to diverse in my book. Degree of diversity is one thing. Diverse: I think the case is made.

I mean, my neighbors aren't "just like me"--and they weren't so even in the 70's, when I had a Jamaican family across the street next to the Bolivian family, and to our left was the Italian family, and next to them the black family. And I'm Cuban-born with a white hubby whose mom came to the US from...Hungary. English was her third language.

Whereas in the Bronx, where I was raised, my neighborhood was overwhelmingly Puerto Rican (and my schoolmates), but if we took a bus or train, we could be in an overwhelmingly Chinese area, Italian area, Jewish area, etc.

[crisp444]

But can you name for me a place where this multicultural society of which you speak actually "works" ? Going by your criteria I can't think of any. My current neighborhood is 40% white non-Hispanic, 25% black, 20% Hispanic and 15% Asian, but I doubt you would call it multicultural. The groups, for the most part, are very segregated in my opinion. At least Hispanics and white non-Hispanics in Miami are extremely integrated. It was just so WEIRD moving here and seeing the groups so segregated with Hispanics largely being poor (where I grew up, Hispanics were on the same economic level as American white non-Hispanic people) and Anglos/Jews largely being rich. The reason why I am focusing on Hispanics here is because frankly, people refer to them as the culprit in that they have an exclusionary "monoculture." The truth is that they are so well integrated in all levels of Miami-Dade society that there really isn't much disparity in much of anything. I could write a diatribe on how dysfunctional Hispanic neighborhoods are in extremely segregated New York City. I have been involved in a few community services activities both here and in Boston (where I lived for college) and it is just so sad how little exposure Hispanic people get to non-Hispanic white and how little positive exposure non-Hispanics whites get to Hispanics up here. I met a person who told me that he grew up in the Bronx and literally DID NOT KNOW anyone who wasn't a "person of color" until he was in high school. That is absolutely unfathomable and wouldn't happen in Miami except in the most disenfranchised of African-American neighborhoods like Liberty City or Overtown.

[compelled to reply]

Do you live in NMB, Meerteekah? It sounds a lot like that area.

Mr. Crispy, I think NYC is unmatched in terms that it has such a broad range of lifestyles and you see a lot of different kind of people in one place tolerating each other when they GO TO WORK, but like you said, look where they come home to.

[schiphol]

I'm sorry guys, but saying how your neighborhood is diverse does not equal Miami-Dade County being diverse.