Do you think South Florida is diverse? (Miami, Doral: townhome, to live in)

[schiphol]

I would like to add that there is nothing wrong with being bilingual. But it's great when it's a bonus, not when it is expected of you for most jobs. I understand if you have to travel to or interface with a lot of Latin American clients. However, to do your corporate job in the US I don't think it should be a deciding factor if you are more than qualified and perfectly capable of doing a job. I work in IT. Microsoft and Mac OSX and their respective applications are in English, I also do programming, all programming languages are in english; now why the f%^& should I have to speak another language to perform those duties? I'm going off-topic. But just because there is a plethora of non-white faces here doesn't make it diverse. If we were in a predominantly white city but everyone hailed from a different English speaking country, ie England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Australia, Canada, is that diversity too?

[TannerMan]

^^I would most certianly say so.

Just for example of the people I know in my block we are the only caucasian family that I know of but there are, koreans, columbians, cubans, brazilians, argentinans. My worplace there are caucasian, italian, cuban, dominican, colombian, peruan, puerto rican, haitian, costa rican, jamaican, french, czech, russian, english, austrian, jewish, chinese amonst others I have probaly never met or have forgoten. My sons best friend is Austrian/Russian born in Canada. Yes, the majority of the people I know or have met of course are hispanic but the diversity in Miami is to me undeniable and ridiculous to say otherwise.
The segregation alot of you talk about is sometimes true but it isn't unique. Most cities have neighborhoods where certian ethnic people relocate to and that becomes their namesake neighborhood but it doesnt mean that russians only live in Sunny Isles, or Haitians only live in little haiti, or jews in the beach area, they are everywhere just historically that ethincity moved to a neighborhood and continued for years and thats where the bulk or majority of certian people live but not the only place they live, segregation is such a harsh word and takes the truth too far.

[rogerbacon]

Originally Posted by schiphol

If we were in a predominantly white city but everyone hailed from a different English speaking country, ie England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Australia, Canada, is that diversity too?

Great point! Since some people seem to think that 10 different nationalities of Hispanics equals diversity I guess the answer to your question would have to be yes.

[crisp444]

It can be. One of the analogies I make to show how diverse Hispanics are as a group is that of a group which I will call "Britannic." This group would be composed of Anglophone people all over the world in the British Isles and former Commonwealth countries/territories like the US, India, Australia, Hong Kong, Wales, Gibraltar, Nigeria, the Bahamas etc. The group "Britannic" would be composed of people of all colors and of many cultures; however, the unifying string would be that they are from the Anglosphere. So my answer is that yes, that group would be a diverse one.

Another point I want to make is that you are 100% right that a predominately white city can be far more culturally diverse than one which is mostly "minority." For example, somewhere like Birmingham, AL (large population of both African Americans and Anglo Americans) is pretty culturally monotonous. However, a very "white" city like Barcelona is extremely diverse with Spaniards, French, Italians, Latin Americans, English, Turkish, Lebanese people, etc. Presence of non-whites certainly does not equate to diverse, but in many cases it does.

[crisp444]

Originally Posted by rogerbacon

Great point! Since some people seem to think that 10 different nationalities of Hispanics equals diversity I guess the answer to your question would have to be yes.

If anyone on this forum thinks that my "Britannic" group would be diverse but "Hispanics" in Miami are not, I would honestly like to know why. Schipol has made a great point to start up another debate!

[schiphol]

Your Britannic group is certainly diverse because it includes Indians, Chinese, Nigerians, and Bajan---in addition to the whites. It is diverse because they are comprised of different races, languages, cultures*, ethnicities, and view points. I put an asterisk after culture because in the last 50 years the culture was primarily British. That is to say British slang, way of dress, and thinking. Moreover, that's a result of past subjugation.

[Meerteekah]

Yeah, I'm in NMB.

Originally Posted by schiphol

I'm sorry guys, but saying how your neighborhood is diverse does not equal Miami-Dade County being diverse.

Since two of the three neighborhoods I've lived in in the last 33 years have been diverse, and all have been in M-D country, I think that says the county is divrerse. It may not be diverse to a particular person's ideas or liking, but it is diverse.

And if that predominantly white city had the folks from "white" ethnicities displaying clear differences by living out their cultures (music from the "motherland", cuisine, language, habits), and that difference colors the city, then it is diverse. Not racially diverse, but diverse. That's to say the Germanic folks chatter in English AND German and open up German restaurants with German folks music playing, the Scandinavian folks chatter in English AND some Scandianavian dialect and offer you lutefisk if you come over for coffee and display some sort of cultural identity as they live in the city, the French folks, the British folks, etc and etc. Yes, if that all is on display and distinct and colors the sights and sounds and tastes of a city, I consider that a type of diversity: cultural, ethnic.

Miami has whites, blacks, multi-racial, biracial, gays, many faiths on display--and I mean display, as I've seen giant Menorahs going down the street, and Christian processions, and white-robed Yahwehs, and Mormons from Utah knocking on doors, and New Age folks drumming at the beach on full moons, etc. We have Greek festivals, Hippie fests, Calle Ocho (which is a huge Latin festival), black boycotts, Cuban anti-Castro demonstrations, Haitian demonstrations, the Goombay Fest (which is the nation's largest black cultural festival), we've got Asians, a Scottish festival yearly. Turn around and see someone who isn't like you in how they sound or dress or believe or eat or dance or marry or parent.

Back to the theoretical "white diversity" of the proffered example: If it is "assimilated" ethnicity--where the dress and food and language has really become part of the nearly-homogenized American norm--then that's not diverse in a way that one can experience. It's diverse in terms of, say, a demographic study that breaks it down to country of origin. But if we can't SEE the culture, if there aren't actual differences noted, then it sort of nullifies "diversity" as a characteristic of a city.

Why does a Chinatown or a Little Italy or a (once) very Cuban Little Havana stand out? Because going there shows a culture in action that still had/has food and religious habits and dress and language that was different than the "normative" background culture. It stood out because the ethnicity or race or orientation affected/affects the community. Whether it's a "gay flavor" or a "Cuban flavor" or a "Russian flavor" or a "Greek flavor"--the thing that makes it stand out and be different is what showcases a diversity from the "tv white American norm" culture,f or lack of a better descriptor (since I'm not anthropologist or sociologist).

Miami's diversity is self-evident.

Trust me: A person who came over from Argentina or Mexico or Chile would not appreciate you confusing them with a person from Cuba or Puerto Rico. Different countries, different Spanish enunciation, different idioms, different cuisines, different histories.

And I bet a French resident would be clear they are not Swiss or Belgian or, and we can be clear on this one, British, hehe, even though they all share a larger community: the EU.

[UrbaneAspects]

Originally Posted by Meerteekah

Well, I've heard Yiddish, Hebrew, Russian, Brazilian, French/Creole, as well as the ever-present Spanish. Given that it's 60% + Hispanic here, and that this is a gateway city to Latin America, the fact that Spanish is the predominant "other" language is hardly a surprise, I'd think.

My husband is not a Latino and he has middling Spanish. He doesn't use it at work (just in restaurants and with my family). He has not had a problem finding work. I took a job where i made it clear I refused to use Spanish for work (ie, I put that on the application, that though I was Hispanic, my Spanish sucked, and I wouldn't rely on it). I had no problem getting work even being hard-headed about language.

Granted, "bilingual" is often noted as "preferred" for some jobs where, frankly, I think it's not fair to ask for it (ie, no legitimate need).

Decades ago in NYC, I remember my sister getting extra pay for being bilingual (way back when), cause that was a bonus. Here, it's not a "pay added", but a default sometimes. I don't think that's generally right. But I think that it's not a bad thing to learn the predominant second language, if one plans to live in a city with a huge immigrant population filled speakers of Spanish. It's like learning computer skills (spreadsheets, desktop publishing), because that makes it easier for you to get hired. It takes work, but it pays off.

And I say that as an immigrant who has lost her Spanish skills, and whose nieces and nephews, by a majority, have lost it, too. We speak in English. Think and write in English. Shoot, one of my degrees is in English. It's the newer arrivals and the old-timers who've had a hard time learning a new language (like my old folks, may they RIP). The rest of us assimilated. The second generation assimilates.

And those who move here, for good or ill, need to adapt to the reality: You may need to deal with Argentinian, Columbian, Venezuelan, Mexican, Dominican, etc Spanish-speakers (who are not ALL alike, because all our cultures are not the same, neither are our cuisines or our political persuasions). Whether as a banker, a realtor, a dentist, a doctor, a marketer, a salesperson, an interior decorator, a lawyer, etc, your patients and customers and clients and networking contacts will include a huge number of immigrants who speak a language other than English. My hubby, back when he had an upcoming trip to Brazil, learned a good amount of Portuguese in a short time in order to be a better rep for his company (and himself). He got a very warm response, because folks could see he was a white American male who had enough respect to take their language seriously.

Wanna impress your clients and bosses? Be flexible. Learn some Spanish. It's not arrogance. It's just reality. Just like coming from an Ivy league school gives you a leg up, or having a brother or father or mother in the industry you work in gives you an advantage, well knowing Spanish gives you a leg up in Miami.

Unfair? That's for philosophers. It's just how it is.

M

Well you have given me hope

[Tiger Beer]

Depends on your definition of diverse.

For me, you MUST have some kind of decent ASIAN representation with the multitudes of ethnicities AND restaurants AND neighborhoods that are representative of them.

In Southern Florida, that entire part of the world just doesn't exist much. But if Spanish, English and Haitian-French and African-American cultures represented the entire world, than Miami would be multicultural numbero uno (1).

[CrazyJay]

I would say.. no