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The whole point of this thread was to explain the huge discrepancy between the percentage of free/reduced lunches in a school, and the wealth of the neighborhood (while we still have the concept of "neighborhood school). Another interesting example is Coral Gables k-8 Prep Academy, smack in the middle of ultra desirable ultra expensive Coral Gables, free lunch percentage 41%.
One explanation could be that since people there are so well-off, they send their kids to private schools, so the local public school brings kids in from the adjacent low income neighborhoods.
The whole point of this thread was to explain the huge discrepancy between the percentage of free/reduced lunches in a school, and the wealth of the neighborhood (while we still have the concept of "neighborhood school). Another interesting example is Coral Gables k-8 Prep Academy, smack in the middle of ultra desirable ultra expensive Coral Gables, free lunch percentage 41%.
One explanation could be that since people there are so well-off, they send their kids to private schools, so the local public school brings kids in from the adjacent low income neighborhoods.
I would imagine this is the case. These neighborhoods have many well off people, I'd be willing to bet many send their kids to private school or that many do not even have kids or have kids who are grown up and what you're getting is children from more low income adjacent areas attending the school.
I'd imagine a lot of people renting or owning in sunny isles are not originally from there and many are likely older and not young families many may have moved in after their kids left the nest so to speak. Usually more affluent people are older as it can take a while to acquire the wealth you see in sunny isles or pinecrest.
It actually makes sense that Many of the schools students (40%) are lower income and come from adjacent areas or people cramming into small apartments to get their kids into a good school. Honestly I'd do the same if I had children. I'd do whatever it took to get them into the best school possible so that they don't end up impoverished themselves. If the schools are so highly rated it makes sense
Another interesting example is Coral Gables k-8 Prep Academy, smack in the middle of ultra desirable ultra expensive Coral Gables, free lunch percentage 41%.
That one isn't quite as surprising. Look up that school's boundaries. They go way outside of Coral Gables to the east.
Honestly I'd do the same if I had children. I'd do whatever it took to get them into the best school possible so that they don't end up impoverished themselves. If the schools are so highly rated it makes sense
That's exactly what i said earlier...not sure why the guy above disagreed with me on that..
Does it make sense to do that? Of course not. But that is because there aren't better schools in areas where homes were cheaper. If there were, people would flock there (and thus, drive up housing costs and the cycle continues). Miami-dade needs better public schools in areas that aren't as affluent like Sunny Isles, Surfside, Pinecrest, etc. But that's a different topic.
or if the school is a 10, a 9 or an 8. I'd bet money that they don't even know how to look up school ratings online.
In my humble opinion, if no one is actually doctoring the school books, and those numbers do reflect reality, over the next several years there will be fewer and fewer low income families in Sunny Isles, as the old buildings will be replaced with more upscale condos.
Trust me, everyone who has kids knows about these schools. They didn't end up in Sunny Isles or Bay Harbor on a whim. Parents know where to send their kids and they do what it takes.
Trust me, everyone who has kids knows about these schools. They didn't end up in Sunny Isles or Bay Harbor on a whim. Parents know where to send their kids and they do what it takes.
I'm not sure I agree with you guys. The phrase "parents know where to send their kids and they do what it takes" and the low-income family concept don't go well together. I think educated, academically driven parents know where to send their kids, from the moment the kid is conceived, or even before, they do research, they plan where to live etc. But then they are not low-income (well, yes, there may be a few exceptions, like maybe 1% or so of educated people who end up living in poverty due to unusual circumstances). Also, according to you, should we assume there are two kinds of people on a low income: the type who decide to live in Sunny Isles, make huge financial sacrifices, cram in one bedroom, send the kids to a good school, and the type who live in Miami Gardens, and couldn't care less if the kid got shot on the way to school? Plus, isn't there a condo/apartment rule that says only two persons per bedroom?
A good example of how things should be is Southern California: close to the coast, uber expensive areas, as it should be, based on high demand; 3% free lunches in public schools, everyone uses those public schools, because they are as good as it gets. In turn, the great schools make real estate more expensive, it's a cycle. Go inland, worse weather, pollution, crime, less high paying jobs, result: 30-40% or higher free lunches in schools, but yes, people do live there, buy houses there, because it's cheaper, they make less money, care less about the schools, not that focused on education. They don't just up and move on the coast. The poor don't live where the rich do, and vice-versa.
Why is Miami such a paradox? Why do wealthy areas have bad schools? I will pay more money (and believe me, I sacrifice too, I don't live on an unlimited income) to benefit from a great school (and again, in my dictionary, great school is equivalent to a certain demographic, let's not kid ourselves), but I will not throw money away to worry every hour of the day about who half of my kids' classmates are.
I am more of the belief that if indeed the 40% number in Sunny Isles is real, it won't be that high much longer. The 40 percenters are probably people who have lived there for a long time, got into those old buildings when it was dirt cheap to do that. They will slowly be driven out of the area. But at that point it will no longer be of interest to me, my kids will have finished school long before that.
I'm not sure I agree with you guys. The phrase "parents know where to send their kids and they do what it takes" and the low-income family concept don't go well together. I think educated, academically driven parents know where to send their kids, from the moment the kid is conceived, or even before, they do research, they plan where to live etc. But then they are not low-income (well, yes, there may be a few exceptions, like maybe 1% or so of educated people who end up living in poverty due to unusual circumstances). Also, according to you, should we assume there are two kinds of people on a low income: the type who decide to live in Sunny Isles, make huge financial sacrifices, cram in one bedroom, send the kids to a good school, and the type who live in Miami Gardens, and couldn't care less if the kid got shot on the way to school? Plus, isn't there a condo/apartment rule that says only two persons per bedroom?
A good example of how things should be is Southern California: close to the coast, uber expensive areas, as it should be, based on high demand; 3% free lunches in public schools, everyone uses those public schools, because they are as good as it gets. In turn, the great schools make real estate more expensive, it's a cycle. Go inland, worse weather, pollution, crime, less high paying jobs, result: 30-40% or higher free lunches in schools, but yes, people do live there, buy houses there, because it's cheaper, they make less money, care less about the schools, not that focused on education. They don't just up and move on the coast. The poor don't live where the rich do, and vice-versa.
Why is Miami such a paradox? Why do wealthy areas have bad schools? I will pay more money (and believe me, I sacrifice too, I don't live on an unlimited income) to benefit from a great school (and again, in my dictionary, great school is equivalent to a certain demographic, let's not kid ourselves), but I will not throw money away to worry every hour of the day about who half of my kids' classmates are.
I am more of the belief that if indeed the 40% number in Sunny Isles is real, it won't be that high much longer. The 40 percenters are probably people who have lived there for a long time, got into those old buildings when it was dirt cheap to do that. They will slowly be driven out of the area. But at that point it will no longer be of interest to me, my kids will have finished school long before that.
So, interesting points you bring.
For one, I believe that the quality of public schools in California is very poor. At least rankings released by state usually has California towards the bottom. I have also heard complaints from many people leaving California about the quality of public schools going down.
Second, the wealthy don't send their children to public schools. Public schools are the thing of the lower and middle classes, who can't afford private schools (which by my own experience tend to be far superior to even 'good' public schools).
Sunny Isles is not really a wealthy neighborhood though. It's easy to be fooled by some of the condo towers with units in the tens of millions of dollars, most of the apartments there are far cheaper and cater to people in the hospitality industry.
When I first moved to Miami Beach, and in particular the neighborhood South of Fifth/South Pointe, I looked into the quality of the public schools, and to my surprise the rankings weren't very good. Since living here I have seen the children, and my impressions is that they're indeed not from well-educated middle-class families.
The reasons are obvious once you live here. Most of my neighbors are retirees from New York or New Jersey, have no kids, and don't care about any public school strength. Or they're investors who own several properties and rent out.
Indeed when I run into families here, they're always renters! Always digging deep to pay rent, and they're the ones sending their children to the public schools here on the Beach.
My personal guess is Sunny Isles is very similar. If you want to find good public schools, you need to find a middle-class enclave where the majority of people are white-collar professionals earning their money from engineering, software programming, lawyers, accountants, doctors etc. Not too many of those neighborhoods in Miami, and while I have not looked my guess is that places like Coral Gables, Miami Springs, and Doral have good public schools.
For one, I believe that the quality of public schools in California is very poor. At least rankings released by state usually has California towards the bottom. I have also heard complaints from many people leaving California about the quality of public schools going down.
Second, the wealthy don't send their children to public schools. Public schools are the thing of the lower and middle classes, who can't afford private schools (which by my own experience tend to be far superior to even 'good' public schools).
Sunny Isles is not really a wealthy neighborhood though. It's easy to be fooled by some of the condo towers with units in the tens of millions of dollars, most of the apartments there are far cheaper and cater to people in the hospitality industry.
When I first moved to Miami Beach, and in particular the neighborhood South of Fifth/South Pointe, I looked into the quality of the public schools, and to my surprise the rankings weren't very good. Since living here I have seen the children, and my impressions is that they're indeed not from well-educated middle-class families.
The reasons are obvious once you live here. Most of my neighbors are retirees from New York or New Jersey, have no kids, and don't care about any public school strength. Or they're investors who own several properties and rent out.
Indeed when I run into families here, they're always renters! Always digging deep to pay rent, and they're the ones sending their children to the public schools here on the Beach.
My personal guess is Sunny Isles is very similar. If you want to find good public schools, you need to find a middle-class enclave where the majority of people are white-collar professionals earning their money from engineering, software programming, lawyers, accountants, doctors etc. Not too many of those neighborhoods in Miami, and while I have not looked my guess is that places like Coral Gables, Miami Springs, and Doral have good public schools.
Ok, I guess it all makes sense if you assume Sunny Isles is not a wealthy city. I guess it was my mistake in assuming it was. So then it seems to be a very polarized place: on one side, million $ beach front condos, occupied by retirees, snowbirds, russian mafia, tourists in investor-owned rentals, and a few families who send kids to private school, and on the other side, well, just the other side of the tracks, going to the local public school.
I do make good money, but not that good! I have three kids, so a high quality secular private school like Pine Crest or American Heritage would cost me over $70-80k a year. I know there are cheaper ones, but not sure they are worth it. I don't need babysitting at bible school. I need competitive schools, with math and science clubs, lots of AP classes, competitiveness etc. A great solid public school should be able to offer that.
Regarding CA, I specifically mentioned coastal Southern CA, because I know CA as a whole has a bad reputation. There are a few school districts that are pretty good, you won't get much better in any private school. Many wealthy people send their kids there. Well, not celebrities, those guys need their privacy.
I guess I may have to give up on my Sunny Isles idea! It was my last hope of living on the beach in S.Fl, in a place with a good public school! Damn shame, back to the 'burbs!
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