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I always thought ( before moving to Kissimmee) that calling someone a Peurto Rican was bad, i dunno why o thought that but i did, we had some cubans and some mexicans in michigan , but i don't think i ever met a PR...
Ok, the only ONLY problem i have is that when People of "hispanic" decent ask me "hablo espaniol" and of course i say no( only because this is america and i speak english i know enough "spanglish" to get by) they start talking to me in perfect English.. like the other poster said.. whats up with that?....
I don't understand that? is it easier for them to speak spanish? are they trying to hide something?.. if you can speak English , i think you should,if you speak spanish of any other language then good for you ...but i don't think it should be Forced on some one
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,160,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHBR702
Ok, I'm not an idiot. I am of course well aware that there are Latinos/Latinas - American or otherwise - of all shades, extremely dark-skinned with dark eyes and hair, blue-eyed, blonde and fair-skinned and every shade in between. The reason I "Huh-ed" as you put it, is because I honestly had no idea that it was offensive to consider Hispanics as "non-White". "Hispanic" may not be a classification of race, but certainly of ethnicity and from my experience, most Latinos and Latinas that I know personally, even those whose skin is white, are quite proud of this distinction. Why do we need to "nip THAT kind of talk in the bud"? Is "White" something that fair-skinned Latinos consider themselves, thus making considering them "non-White" an insult? This to me is completely new information.
I am not being coy or trying to provoke anyone. I, myself, made a comment in another post about wanting to move to Miami in spite of complaints from so many about the large population of "non-White" Americans and other ethnicities because I found it refreshing and interesting to see/hear different languages and cultures in one place so the last thing I was attempting to do is insult anyone. I am a Black woman, married to a European man in a society that is still largely biased against "mixed" relationships so I'm certainly not one to judge based on race or ethnicity.
LBHR I'm not the one who said to nip anything but you're quoting me so Speaking for myself only:
My response was not meant to be offensive in any way, shape, or form, to you or anyone else. I am sorry if it came across like that. I have answered many of your other posts, all with my best intentions at heart. I was trying to clarify something for the benefit of all who may not know as much. This latino/hispanic/non whatever stuff is so prevalent on census data and other paperwork that a lot of people think it IS a race. There's another thread about this somewhere. I know I am outspoken but I just don't like generalizations or stereotyping of any kind so I jump in defense of mankind.
And I think you just said something that is probably true. There is a underlying belief among many that Latino =s non-white. And those who are "white" AND Latino may get offended. Some nationalities make it a point about being non-white BECAUSE they are hispanic. So who knows. You can't please everybody all of the time.
And you know what too? IMHO I don't think Europe is as narrow-minded if you will, about mixed relationships whether it be due to color or nationalities or religious beliefs or anything, as we seem to be in the United States. I don't find it so in latin american countries either. The racism there is between "whites" and the native "indian" population, or the rich v the poor.
just a warning. alot of latins have hostility towards blacks. i think some of it is due to the population of brasilians in south florida now and how they have issues with blacks in their home country. i had a very poisenous coworker who threw around the n-word alot. i found it very disturbing having come from a part of the country (california) that has very little racial tension. ive had coworkers refer to other coworkers they didnt get along with telling me in confidence "shes the worst kind of black person, shes a n-----". unbelievable. i dont want to scare you, i just want you to see what ive seen. honestly id love to have a black friend down here, the stick with your own kind thing is bull****. we have a neighbor who is a white woman who married a mexican guy who has a black son from a previous relationship but shes an oddball down here. maybe you'd be able to get along better with the black people who i try to be friendly with but simply stare at me. tell me if im going overboard, just giving you demographic info. as far as black people are concerned haitians and jamaicans seem extremely friendly, its only the old school southern blacks who usually dislike us and stare at us. when we moved in here in homestead there was a family diagonal from us who had a bunch of kids and was on welfare / section 8 renter. they didnt like us but i made every effort to talk to her children every chance i got to try to show them that not all white people are bad before the parents teach them to dislike us. i can understand some of their reasoning though. I was fascinated with the story of hurricane andrew in 1992 and tried to talk to as many people as possible about it and their experiences or people who moved away or their survival situations. from talking with these people ive heard that after hurricane andrew the black community out here were left to fend for themselves and didnt receive any help from the white people. its so sad.
proof that miami isnt a politically correct place? i had to take a picture of this for people to believe it http://www.cixel.com/ljimages/watermelon.jpg
Cixel - I hate to burst you bubble about your proof that after hurricane andrew the black community was left to fend for themselves and didn't receive any help from the white people. But I went through Hurricane Andrew, the eye actually came over my house. But EVERYONE was left to fend for themselves not just the blacks, ALL RACES. I am a white person and I don't remember getting any help from the governement. And yes I lived without phone for 3 months and electricity for 4 or 5 months, I can't remember. It is just that many people believe that the government must take care of them after a storm, so they inturn don't prepare for the storm.
Ok, I'm not an idiot. I am of course well aware that there are Latinos/Latinas - American or otherwise - of all shades, extremely dark-skinned with dark eyes and hair, blue-eyed, blonde and fair-skinned and every shade in between. The reason I "Huh-ed" as you put it, is because I honestly had no idea that it was offensive to consider Hispanics as "non-White". "Hispanic" may not be a classification of race, but certainly of ethnicity and from my experience, most Latinos and Latinas that I know personally, even those whose skin is white, are quite proud of this distinction. Why do we need to "nip THAT kind of talk in the bud"? Is "White" something that fair-skinned Latinos consider themselves, thus making considering them "non-White" an insult? This to me is completely new information.
I am not being coy or trying to provoke anyone. I, myself, made a comment in another post about wanting to move to Miami in spite of complaints from so many about the large population of "non-White" Americans and other ethnicities because I found it refreshing and interesting to see/hear different languages and cultures in one place so the last thing I was attempting to do is insult anyone. I am a Black woman, married to a European man in a society that is still largely biased against "mixed" relationships so I'm certainly not one to judge based on race or ethnicity.
Outside of the United States, basically no other country considers "Hispanic" or "Latino" to be an indenitifiable, separate race. Least of all in Latin American countries themselves. Hispanic, as a term, was invented in the 1960s or so, and in my opinion, should be abolished because it is too often confused with race.
"Hispanic" is an "ethnicity" much the same way "European" is an ethicity. Go to the CIA Factbook and take a look at the racial breakdown of Latin and South American countries. There are many many blonde haired, blue eyed Hispanics, just as there are many black Hispanics.
Thus, someone can be a "white Hispanic"... or a "black Hispanic".... or "mixed Hispanic." A lot of Mexicans consider themselves "chicano"... giving status to their mixed European/Indigenous ancestry. HOWEVER, it is WRONG to call ALL Mexicans "Chicanos". Indeed, because much of our immigration debate involves poorer "darker" Mexicans leaving Mexico to come to the US in search of opportunity that they can't find in the race-stratified society of Mexico, you'll find many Mexicans in the US who like the term even though "ruling class" Mexicans may never want to adopt the label. Ever look at Mexico's ex President? Vincente Fox? White as anything. You Couldn't pick him out of a line of assorted European presidents easily!!
Anyway, to say someone is "non-white" simply because they are Latino is false. Being Latino merely means you were born and/or grew up in a country in the Western Hemisphere that happened to be colonized by Spain (or Portugal).
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,160,105 times
Reputation: 7018
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiebus
Cixel - I hate to burst you bubble about your proof that after hurricane andrew the black community was left to fend for themselves and didn't receive any help from the white people. But I went through Hurricane Andrew, the eye actually came over my house. But EVERYONE was left to fend for themselves not just the blacks, ALL RACES. I am a white person and I don't remember getting any help from the governement. And yes I lived without phone for 3 months and electricity for 4 or 5 months, I can't remember. It is just that many people believe that the government must take care of them after a storm, so they inturn don't prepare for the storm.
Doggiebus- I was still living in NY when Andrew hit Florida but I watched every minute of the TV coverage because my mother was living here. I had no idea how far Homestead was from Miami back then. I didn't even know it existed. The destruction I saw looked like a war zone. You must have gone through hell and back twice and don't blame you for not remembering some things. I would want to forget all of it.
When Katrina came around Miami I had a few downed branches, some flooding, lost electricity one day, my street lost a bunch of trees, there were the houses with the huge oak trees that split the roofs that caved in. Horrible. I get very worried now when we even have a little bit of gust and rain and it doesn't have to be hurricane season either. That's like my going through the after shocks of earthquakes in Peru and then becoming paranoid when I felt the tremor of the subway trains in NY.
And back to the topic....I think EVERYBODY was left hanging to fend for themselves during Andrew.
And you know what too? IMHO I don't think Europe is as narrow-minded if you will, about mixed relationships whether it be due to color or nationalities or religious beliefs or anything, as we seem to be in the United States. I don't find it so in latin american countries either. The racism there is between "whites" and the native "indian" population, or the rich v the poor.
Hey VP, just a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of each other's thoughts I'm convinced.
I would tend to agree with you regarding racism in America. Most countries in Europe are far less focused on the issue of race. Racism is alive and well here and it's not just Blacks who are the targets. Blacks are equally to blame if you ask me. I do not buy into that "Blacks can't be racists" mentality. Racist people come in all shapes and sizes aND COLORS!. There isn't anything wrong with having pride in your heritage, but you needn't do it by demeaning or hating another's. In my personal life I choose to surround myself with like-minded people who judge a person by his/her character and not race, ethinicity, religion, etc. What a wonderful world it would be if we could all live that way, dontcha think?
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,160,105 times
Reputation: 7018
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHBR702
Hey VP, just a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of each other's thoughts I'm convinced.
I would tend to agree with you regarding racism in America. Most countries in Europe are far less focused on the issue of race. Racism is alive and well here and it's not just Blacks who are the targets. Blacks are equally to blame if you ask me. I do not buy into that "Blacks can't be racists" mentality. Racist people come in all shapes and sizes. There isn't anything wrong with having pride in your heritage, but you needn't do it by demeaning or hating another's. In my personal life I choose to surround myself with like-minded people who judge a person by his/her character and not race, ethinicity, religion, etc. What a wonderful world it would be if we could all live that way, dontcha think?
Ok, now...back to Miami
Great. I'll confess something. I liked your writing style and presentation from the very beginning. Polished, educated, respectful and not a push-over. You can tell people what you think without sounding harsh (most of the time and I never had a clue that you were black or even a woman for that matter. Didn't even cross my mind that you were anything other than a human being asking for some information.
It would be awesome if real life could be that sweet!
Hey VP, just a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of each other's thoughts I'm convinced.
I would tend to agree with you regarding racism in America. Most countries in Europe are far less focused on the issue of race. Racism is alive and well here and it's not just Blacks who are the targets. Blacks are equally to blame if you ask me. I do not buy into that "Blacks can't be racists" mentality. Racist people come in all shapes and sizes. There isn't anything wrong with having pride in your heritage, but you needn't do it by demeaning or hating another's. In my personal life I choose to surround myself with like-minded people who judge a person by his/her character and not race, ethinicity, religion, etc. What a wonderful world it would be if we could all live that way, dontcha think?
Ok, now...back to Miami
Racism is being directed more and more at whites and asians, who are becoming minorities in America's cities, when you compare it to Blacks and Hispanics.
I am sorry but the discrimination against Non-Hispanics is much stronger than the discrimination against Latinos. Why do I say that?
Because companies who ONLY wnat to hire latinos are requiring people to speak Spanish. This is nothing more than a form of legalized racism against all non-Hispanic races. Think about it! Requiring someone who speak Spanish is nothing more than saying “all you non-Latinos need not apply”.
Isn't racism simply discrimination against someone based on race, ethinic background, etc? Well, isn't that what happens when you cannot get a job because you don't speak Spanish or they only hire people who speak a certain language (and belong to a certain race)?
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,160,105 times
Reputation: 7018
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryLou2007
Racism is being directed more and more at whites and asians, who are becoming minorities in America's cities, when you compare it to Blacks and Hispanics.
I am sorry but the discrimination against Non-Hispanics is much stronger than the discrimination against Latinos. Why do I say that?
Because companies who ONLY wnat to hire latinos are requiring people to speak Spanish. This is nothing more than a form of legalized racism against all non-Hispanic races. Think about it! Requiring someone who speak Spanish is nothing more than saying “all you non-Latinos need not apply”.
Isn't racism simply discrimination against someone based on race, ethinic background, etc? Well, isn't that what happens when you cannot get a job because you don't speak Spanish or they only hire people who speak a certain language (and belong to a certain race)?
Are those companies saying they will not hire anybody who speaks English??
I don't think so or they're looking at big time lawsuits which they will not be able to afford. I work for a HUGE, trust me HUGE, employer. We have positions where we require creole too.
Racism is being directed more and more at whites and asians, who are becoming minorities in America's cities, when you compare it to Blacks and Hispanics.
I am sorry but the discrimination against Non-Hispanics is much stronger than the discrimination against Latinos. Why do I say that?
Because companies who ONLY wnat to hire latinos are requiring people to speak Spanish. This is nothing more than a form of legalized racism against all non-Hispanic races. Think about it! Requiring someone who speak Spanish is nothing more than saying “all you non-Latinos need not apply”.
Isn't racism simply discrimination against someone based on race, ethinic background, etc? Well, isn't that what happens when you cannot get a job because you don't speak Spanish or they only hire people who speak a certain language (and belong to a certain race)?
Not sure I agree with this fully. I don't really see it as Whites and Asians now being discriminated against MORE than others. As I see it, it's just that when Whites, as a whole, were a larger majority, racism against them was less pronounced. Now as the population of "non-whites" grows, so does racism against Whites. Just my take on it.
What I do agree with you is the whole "Spanish language" issue. The reason I disagree is this... Although I've read that the U.S. never designated an official "language", English was always the widely-used language here in America. I believe that if you are from somewhere else and your native language is not English, you should have every right to speak your language wherever you may be with others who speak that language. HOWEVER, I disagree with those who do not have an interest in learning to effectively speak English. If I went to a non-English speaking country I would never expect that folks there conformed to speaking to me in English. I would appreciate it very much if they attempted to, but that would be a very generous accomodation and certainly not my expectation. I would feel it was my responsibility to try to communicate in THEIR language. I believe it was a huge error on the part of the US to begin posting signs and such in Spanish. This is not because I have anything against Hispanics, but it's because if we do that, isn't it unfair not to have signs in Mandarin, Russian, German, etc. People from all over the world come here to make it their home.
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Speaking for myself only:
and I never had a clue that you were black or even a woman for that matter. Didn't even cross my mind that you were anything other than a human being asking for some information. 
Racism can be directed at anyone.
