Why is up with Black Miami (Hialeah, Gainesville: sales, crimes, loan)

[Fawkes]

So, I grew up in a upper middle class predominately Cuban neighborhood. Let me say rephrase that, most of my neighbors were rich Cubans. Cubans that came up to Miami, worked there asses off and made a lot of money.

I can't pretend to know what it's like to grow up poor because I didn't. But I took classes at MDC north. I have driven throughout the ghetto all over the place. And not just in the north, but also on grand avenue (I went to Carver MS and I worked at the CVS on Grand and McDonald).

So, driving down the street in the ghetto, I have developed a question. Where are all the stores? Cubans in Hialeah have all those stores along West 49th street in Hialeah. Best Buy, Ross, The Mall, Circuit City, Toys R Us. Where are those stores in the black ghetto? I don't understand.

Blacks always say they are discriminated against. I can't comment on that. But Latins also say they are discriminated against. Then they go to work and make money. This is evidenced by the fact that in the latin neighborhood in Miami THERE ARE STORES WHERE YOU CAN BUY THINGS!!! In the black neighborhoods there are no stores because THE PEOPLE HAVE NO MONEY!!!!

Both the latins and the blacks claim that they are being discriminated against by white people like me. But I want to to know why, even though black people have a big head start, latins have had a larger economic effect on this country.

Show me a Toys R Us, a Circuit City, a Ross, a Best Buy, a David's Bridal, a Sear's, a Target or a jewelry store in the predominately black areas of Miami. There are plenty in the latin areas like Hialeah or west Flagler. I said Jewelry store because I know there is a stand alone jewelry store on 49th street but I can't remember where or what its called. Not exactly my market. But I know you would not find a jewelry store like that in black ghetto. But you can find a few like that in the latin area. So, I don't see a Toys R Us on NW 135 street. Where is the Best Buy on 441 in Miami? You got a Circuit City or a jewlewry store on Biscayne and 79th? Well, there MIGHT be a Best Buy on 441, maybe in Gainesville, Georgia or Kentucky, but definately NOT in Miami.

So Blacks and Latins both get descriminated against, but why have the latins been able to rise above?

[sergio]

Well, being hispanic and kind of dark skin, I guess I can get away with answering like this.
I would guess that Toys R Us, Circuit City, Ross, Best Buy, David's Bridal, Sear's, Target and any other national retailer prefer to build in areas that cater to their clientel. Not that blacks dont buy at these stores, they do. But I think its more likely you will see a Walmart in those areas than these higher end retailers. Not that Ross or Sears is higher end.
As we all know, most of the discrimination blacks deal with today is self inflicted. I know that the treatment of blacks in this country is a shame. But its no worse than the treatment the Jews have gotten world-wide. And they own and control half the world now! Its not the color of your skin, its what you choose to do with your life that matters. And since education, following the law, and avoiding drugs is not common in the black population, they have created a very negative perception of themselves which causes alot of the discrimination.

Also, since most businesses that are black owned seem to be burned down or looted along with the white ones during race riots, I am sure the corporations that own these businesses arent interested in opening a store in an area that will one day find a reason to shatter the windows and clean it out.

Until the black population decides as a whole to leave the past where it belongs, raise their children to do the right thing and not expect to be given everything just because their ancestors suffered, then they will continue to cause alot of the unfair treatment they are receiving.

I may be wrong to think this way but its my opinion and I am sure many share it.

[mikealialex]

I hire for a major big box retailer, and here are my observations. When I look at an applicant, their appearance at an interview (or even just filling out an app), gives me some insight on how they are going to appear coming to work. When I see someone wearing pants pulled low, boxers showing, lots of bling; I dont hire. When I see someone wearing shorts and sneakers (or sandals) for an interview, I dont hire. When the applicant cant spell McDonalds or K-Mart correctly for their previous employers; I dont hire. Sorry to say, but often these characterisitcs are more with the Black applicants than the Latinos or Whites. Dont get me wrong, I have interviewed some real thugs wearing a coat and tie, so appearance isnt everything. It does show how they feel about themselves though to come in wearing clothes inappropriate to the appearance of the business. This speaks to the poster above who mentioned that they feel we owe them something. I had 2 young black males come in on Friday to apply, both wanted to work 9-5 M-F. Neither was going to get hired, but I still took the time to explain to them that nobody in retail would hire them with those hours. They looked at me like I was crazy! They walked away shaking their heads.
BTW, I lived in Dade/Broward for 40 years, now I live in NC. No different up here with the hiring issues.

[socrates]

Head start?

I don't know if you're familiar with American history but when the first wave of Cubans came, Jim crow laws were still in full effect. These laws stripped blacks of power, education and almost any realistic chance to live a normal life. Its over now, but a very large % of todays black population lived through that period and its effects still linger on

Meanwhile, Cuban immigrants were given assistance from the government and charities. The period of state racism still lingers because nothing was ever done to heal it. Blacks, as a direct result of slavery and segregation still live in the most run down poor areas of cities. These areas are ignored by the government and given inadequate schools, hospitals, food, businesses and all other public services. Although Latinos also are discriminated upon a bit, it doesn't compare to the magnitude black people deal with, most Cubans classify as white anyway. Police still racial profile and over harass blacks everyday. The amount of drug users in white communities may be just as high but police don't go there looking for drugs. When arrested and put into the justice system, blacks can forget it. Statistics have proven blacks get harsher sentences than hispanics and whites for the exact same crimes. It is very hard for one to move up with no proper education, fairness in lending, or government. Growing up poor means living in an area all around health hazards (since any health hazard is always put near a black community). Bad health and all of the other forms of discrimination lead to a stressful life. What do most people do when they are stressed? Practice unhealthy eating or spending habits. Unhealthy eating habits and no proper health care lead to obesity and increased disease which leads to unhealthy children.

Of course blacks can't open businesses. If a black and Cuban of the same qualifications go to a bank to get a business loan (assuming the government didn't already give the Cuban money to start a business) the black is probably going to be declined and if approved it will be with a much higher interest rate thus decreased likelihood for success.

[Wild Style]

Ohhh socrates,

you and your facts, and common sense (shakes head)

[DCkid]

1. Young black men think differently than most. In general, we are a very materialistic and individualistic race. We have expensive taste and judge each other on the kind of car we drive. If you drive through Liberty City you see some expensive cars in some run down neighborhoods.

2. 70% (i think) of black children are born to a single family home. In MOST CASES, this involves a mother and no father. Young black men see local hustlers getting fast women and fast cars and are influenced by this heavily. So put your self in the shoes of a poor black child on welfare with no male influence in your life. Are you going to hustle and try to be like these local drug dealers. Or are you going to work at McDonald's for minimum wage? Its like get your 3 years of fame and spend 20 years in jail.

3. On top of that, the schools suck. Point Blank. And on top of that, a 16 year old poverty ridden black male has the mentaility of survival over education. Education is not stressed IN GENERAL. Its true, no sugarcoating here. Not that I agree. Im just speaking the truth. A 16 year old street dealer is making more money than a entry level sales associate with a college degree in SOME CASES. Again, put yourself in the mindset of a child with no male influence in your life. How are you going to learn about becoming a man, getting educated and preparing for your future. Your in survival mode trying to make this fast money.

4. Cubans stick together, establish businesses and take care of each other. Blacks don't look at it like that. Its all about "DO WHAT YOU GOT TO DO TO GET YOURS". Don't listen to that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton Crap. No young black people respect them.

5. Black children are part of generations of poverty and failure. If your parents aren't educated, how are you going to learn about different career paths? How are you going to establish connections in corporate america to assure yourself a job after college?


I could go on all day but the bottom line is THIS IS NOT A FAIR COMPARISON. Latins do not face the same level of discrimination blacks do. In the 1960's there weren't water fountains that said "LATINS ONLY". There aren't "HISTORICALLY LATIN BLACK COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES". There are high schools that still exist that were orignially established as "SCHOOLS FOR THE COLORED". These are the high schools that typically underperform. There were never "SCHOOLS FOR THE LATIN".

Its not as easy as to say "GET UP AND GET A JOB". You have to change the mindset of an entire generational race of people and personally, I don't see that happening. On top of that, people group black people as one, so the actions of the bad rub off on the good.

Theres a lot more to it than I can explain in one post. But don't compare the struggle of Latin America to the struggle of Black America. It's NOTHING ALIKE.

[dorado0359]

Originally Posted by Fawkes

So, I grew up in a upper middle class predominately Cuban neighborhood. Let me say rephrase that, most of my neighbors were rich Cubans. Cubans that came up to Miami, worked there asses off and made a lot of money.

I can't pretend to know what it's like to grow up poor because I didn't. But I took classes at MDC north. I have driven throughout the ghetto all over the place. And not just in the north, but also on grand avenue (I went to Carver MS and I worked at the CVS on Grand and McDonald).

So, driving down the street in the ghetto, I have developed a question. Where are all the stores? Cubans in Hialeah have all those stores along West 49th street in Hialeah. Best Buy, Ross, The Mall, Circuit City, Toys R Us. Where are those stores in the black ghetto? I don't understand.

Blacks always say they are discriminated against. I can't comment on that. But Latins also say they are discriminated against. Then they go to work and make money. This is evidenced by the fact that in the latin neighborhood in Miami THERE ARE STORES WHERE YOU CAN BUY THINGS!!! In the black neighborhoods there are no stores because THE PEOPLE HAVE NO MONEY!!!!

Both the latins and the blacks claim that they are being discriminated against by white people like me. But I want to to know why, even though black people have a big head start, latins have had a larger economic effect on this country.

Show me a Toys R Us, a Circuit City, a Ross, a Best Buy, a David's Bridal, a Sear's, a Target or a jewelry store in the predominately black areas of Miami. There are plenty in the latin areas like Hialeah or west Flagler. I said Jewelry store because I know there is a stand alone jewelry store on 49th street but I can't remember where or what its called. Not exactly my market. But I know you would not find a jewelry store like that in black ghetto. But you can find a few like that in the latin area. So, I don't see a Toys R Us on NW 135 street. Where is the Best Buy on 441 in Miami? You got a Circuit City or a jewlewry store on Biscayne and 79th? Well, there MIGHT be a Best Buy on 441, maybe in Gainesville, Georgia or Kentucky, but definately NOT in Miami.

So Blacks and Latins both get descriminated against, but why have the latins been able to rise above?

Since you're so rich, why don't you go buy an AMERICAN HISTORY book and read up on the history of BLACKS IN AMERICA.

[tallrick]

Originally Posted by DCkid

1. Young black men think differently than most. In general, we are a very materialistic and individualistic race. We have expensive taste and judge each other on the kind of car we drive. If you drive through Liberty City you see some expensive cars in some run down neighborhoods.

2. 70% (i think) of black children are born to a single family home. In MOST CASES, this involves a mother and no father. Young black men see local hustlers getting fast women and fast cars and are influenced by this heavily. So put your self in the shoes of a poor black child on welfare with no male influence in your life. Are you going to hustle and try to be like these local drug dealers. Or are you going to work at McDonald's for minimum wage? Its like get your 3 years of fame and spend 20 years in jail.

3. On top of that, the schools suck. Point Blank. And on top of that, a 16 year old poverty ridden black male has the mentaility of survival over education. Education is not stressed IN GENERAL. Its true, no sugarcoating here. Not that I agree. Im just speaking the truth. A 16 year old street dealer is making more money than a entry level sales associate with a college degree in SOME CASES. Again, put yourself in the mindset of a child with no male influence in your life. How are you going to learn about becoming a man, getting educated and preparing for your future. Your in survival mode trying to make this fast money.

4. Cubans stick together, establish businesses and take care of each other. Blacks don't look at it like that. Its all about "DO WHAT YOU GOT TO DO TO GET YOURS". Don't listen to that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton Crap. No young black people respect them.

5. Black children are part of generations of poverty and failure. If your parents aren't educated, how are you going to learn about different career paths? How are you going to establish connections in corporate america to assure yourself a job after college?


I could go on all day but the bottom line is THIS IS NOT A FAIR COMPARISON. Latins do not face the same level of discrimination blacks do. In the 1960's there weren't water fountains that said "LATINS ONLY". There aren't "HISTORICALLY LATIN BLACK COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES". There are high schools that still exist that were orignially established as "SCHOOLS FOR THE COLORED". These are the high schools that typically underperform. There were never "SCHOOLS FOR THE LATIN".

Its not as easy as to say "GET UP AND GET A JOB". You have to change the mindset of an entire generational race of people and personally, I don't see that happening. On top of that, people group black people as one, so the actions of the bad rub off on the good.

Theres a lot more to it than I can explain in one post. But don't compare the struggle of Latin America to the struggle of Black America. It's NOTHING ALIKE.

Very accurate description of the problem. I could not say it better!

[noland123]

The OP s talkng about being raised up in Miami,that is alot different than the Cubans X- generations ago who came from Cuba to escape Castro's oppression. These Cuban exiles were professionals: lawyers and doctor who made something of themselves here in Miami and enjoyed the taste of freedom . They already had experience,education and a willingness to work hard,today the existing generations are living off of the former generation,being able to send them to nice schools to get better educations and gainful employment.

Blacks did not have that advantage back in the 1960's,they could work in another part of town but had to be back in their part of town at a certain time,which at that time the majority of blacks lived in Overtown.They were not educated ,they did not have the money to send their kids to private schools and colleges,they were as bad off as if they were under the Castro regime.

As soon as Civil Rrghts came into play there was a mass exodus by blacks out of Overtown and into the suburbs,my point being there are some of the blacks that were successful and made it out of poverty and their were others who had bad influences and remained in poverty.We don't see those who became successful but the downtrodden ones who were left behind



It is all about choices that given the right chance anyone can become successful regardless of race,creed or color. We are lucky to have been born or now reside in the United States of America.

[traveler guy]

Originally Posted by DCkid

I could go on all day but the bottom line is THIS IS NOT A FAIR COMPARISON. Latins do not face the same level of discrimination blacks do. In the 1960's there weren't water fountains that said "LATINS ONLY". There aren't "HISTORICALLY LATIN BLACK COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES". There are high schools that still exist that were orignially established as "SCHOOLS FOR THE COLORED". These are the high schools that typically underperform. There were never "SCHOOLS FOR THE LATIN".


Theres a lot more to it than I can explain in one post. But don't compare the struggle of Latin America to the struggle of Black America. It's NOTHING ALIKE.

I agreed with you with the top half but this bottom half is a little misguided.
Cubans probably had a softer road thorough the struggles of America but not all latin cultures had it easy and in the mexican culture they had way worst then any race in America besides Native Americans. back in the 60's/50's there were parts of cities left for the mexicans in Texas. Well in SA the west was left for them to survive on there own quiet literarily and left them there with no sewage system, no running water, no paved roads, no electricity.
In fact the conditions of living there were so bad that the Peace Corp. stationed there for training cause it pictured what a 3rd world country would be like. Let me remind you this is in a American city and the whole city wasn't like that just the west side of it were the mexicans lived.

Also the Latin America struggle is the exact same problem just turned up 100X's what you see in Black America. Like Mexico for and example the still discriminate based on race. a dark skinned or native american decent mexican has a harder struggle of life then a light skinned mexican in Mexico.