Miami Bad Areas...How bad is bad? (Hialeah, North Miami: high crime, roughest)

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by topshop

I think all one needs to do is look around.

All over the US the ghettos are much larger since the Great Society was implemented. Detroit turned into a giant mess long before the Big3 went downhill. I would guess that a similar timeline can be found in Miami or any other large US city. Social engineering is the primary cause.

Remove all the government incentives to be poor and helpless and watch those ghettos contract while increased production and quality of life get better.

Hmm--this doesn't make much sense to me in the context of the comment I initially made, which was this: "Yes, I agree. If someone would be very frustrated in the absence of lots of government involvement/social engineering, etc., Florida is not a good state for them", and your response to it, which was this: "I see it completely the other way".

Note that in what you were responding to, I uttered NO opinion about whether government involvement is a good or bad thing in my view. Rather, the comment you responded to, for which you said you "see it completely the other way", was a claim (in the context of agreeing with another person about this) that in Florida, the government is NOT of a type that would "not allow things to deteriorate . . ." in terms of morphology and the socio-economic state of its people.

Far more than other states I have a lot of experience with, Florida is relatively "hands-off", has tended to lean towards what's now known as "conservative" economic and taxation policies, even to the point of being slightly Libertarian. A lot of people complain about Florida because of these things--they do not like that there is a shortage of tax money for various government-funded programs and services (and some folks have forwarded the idea that there should perhaps be a state income tax to try to correct this), they do not like that unions are so weak in Florida as it is a right-to-work state, etc.

Again, I gave no opinion in the post you responded to about whether I think this is a good or bad thing (and I'm still not giving any opinion about that in this thread), I didn't broach very generalized political-philosophical positions about it, etc. I just agreed that for someone who "would have serious questions about any state, country or city that allowed things to deteriorate that severely", Florida isn't a good state to move to, because its government is far more hands-off than many other states. That person would have far more "serious questions" about Florida than they would about other states, as the other states are not going to be as hands-off.

That's not to say whether someone is likely to judge the "bad" areas in Florida as being as bad as elsewhere, but if they judge them to not be as bad, it's certainly NOT because Florida's government has engineered them to be not so bad. It would be for other reasons instead.

What would count as disconfirming evidence of my comments is not uttering broad political philosophy platitudes, but citing specific social engineering efforts by the Florida State government, since that's what should be at dispute if one "sees it completely the other way" from what I actually said*. That would be the only way to show that claims that Florida's government tends to be relatively hands-off are incorrect--it would show that the Florida government tends to get involved with this kind of stuff instead.


*Well, or perhaps an argument that for someone who is bothered by a lack of government involvement, and given that Florida does not have a lot of government involvement relative to other states, that person would for some reason LIKE Florida better than dislike it more with respect to the government involvement . . . I'm not sure how that would make a lot of sense, but it would be another way to "see things completely the other way" than what I actually said.

[blackklight]

Originally Posted by Banx

Miami neighborhoods might be run down to the point of third world looking (and yes legitimately third world), but from my experience they seemed different from poverty stricken areas of other cities in the US. I passed through heavily Jamaican, Haitian and Cuban areas on a bus (79th street) and while the some neighborhoods looked identical to Jamaica (I've seen the country alot, my brother lives there) the people were friendly and minded their own business, no out of the ordinary "dirty" looks or stares, and being a light skinned Mexican, I stood out. These people in these areas have a different mind set, and different expectations of their lifestyles than the average American, and so just because their impoverished, they still live a better lifestyle than they would in their home country, trust me, therefore they're not so full of hate and anger like in other American cities. This is just from a couple of my experiences though, and its kinda generilizing, so maybe somebody else could shed some more light.

lol typical. you rode the bus through the hood and now you think you "have it all figured out." my friend, it is not like that. my step dad, a truck driver had two dudes CLIMB ONTO HIS TRUCK while at a red light in liberty city, point a gun at him, get inside the truck and later rob him.

yeah they where definitely minding their own business.

[dadeguy]

hello all.

I'm a long time lurker and finally decided to post.

in my opinion there are no real "bad areas" in miami. one needs to be aware of your surroundings when out. I think you will find both good and bad people in any area of any town. our town is no different. the impression I come away with by reading these types of posts is that my posters are simply a bit racist and or xenophobic.

[Lulu101]

If Detroit's so dangerous how were they able to drive around shooting that video?

[Lulu101]

maybe Newark

Originally Posted by topshop

. I've driven through it and it is unbelievable to witness first hand. I don't know if you viewed that video, but I find it staggering...and I doubt that very many other areas in the US are like it. .

[Banx]

Originally Posted by blackklight

lol typical. you rode the bus through the hood and now you think you "have it all figured out." my friend, it is not like that. my step dad, a truck driver had two dudes CLIMB ONTO HIS TRUCK while at a red light in liberty city, point a gun at him, get inside the truck and later rob him.

yeah they where definitely minding their own business.

well yeah, liberty city is mostly African-American, I was talkin about the Jamaican/Haitian neighborhoods which I have been around cause I used to know a few people there who have recently emigrated from Jamaica (my brother lives there) that live(d) around these areas. I haven't seen em in a while which was why I was referring to my recent bus trips, but the neighbrohood still did not seem much different. Plus, African-American's have a very different mind set than the immigrants from the Carribean, at least in Chicago, n u can tell just by visiting the countries in the Carribean. I've been through the northern outskirts of Liberty City n Opa-Locka even as well, and yeah that would be a crappy place to get stuck at a red light at night, no joke. I got a total different vibe though in those areas than in Carribean neighborhoods. It's like gold teeth, 28" rims, n XXXL white T's vs. khaki pants, collared shirts, n a beat down Toyota. See the difference I'm pointing out? That sucks ur dad got jacked man, I'm not acting like I have it all figured out, I'm just speaking from my experiences.

You obviously skipped over the last sentence of my post so don't assume.

[PBCboy]

Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder

The criteria were not indicative of people being angry. What they actually observed were things like blood pressure data, traffic volume data, etc. Anger is an emotion. Although even this is not a guarantee, the best well to tell if someone is angry is by asking them what they're feeling. The second best way is to observe some of the behavior most commonly associated with anger (such as someone screaming at you, etc.). There's no reliable way to correlate things like blood pressure with anger, and we know that there are a lot of people with high blood pressure who are not at all angry.

I think that their data is more complex and a better way of measuring anger than simply asking random people if "you're feeling angry or not".

Originally Posted by dadeguy

hello all.

I'm a long time lurker and finally decided to post.

in my opinion there are no real "bad areas" in miami. one needs to be aware of your surroundings when out. I think you will find both good and bad people in any area of any town. our town is no different. the impression I come away with by reading these types of posts is that my posters are simply a bit racist and or xenophobic.

For some reason most of the people that claim there's no "bad areas" (a joke considering there are areas of Dade that have buildings and homes that look like they're going to fall apart any minute) live in the upscale sections of town... This also has nothing to do with race. For example, many famous blacks (like Trina and Rick Ross) that lived in sections of town like Carol City and Liberty City eventually moved out to less black areas like Pembroke Pines and Davie... are they racist too, just because they want to escape crime and poverty?

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by PBCboy

I think that their data is more complex and a better way of measuring anger than simply asking random people if "you're feeling angry or not".

Okay, you can think that, but I think the methodology is ridiculous. <shrug>

[jbravo]

Grasshopper:
What is the sound of one hand clapping?

[blackklight]

Originally Posted by dadeguy

hello all.

I'm a long time lurker and finally decided to post.

in my opinion there are no real "bad areas" in miami. one needs to be aware of your surroundings when out. I think you will find both good and bad people in any area of any town. our town is no different. the impression I come away with by reading these types of posts is that my posters are simply a bit racist and or xenophobic.

this post has wrong all over it