Miami's ghetto areas (pictures included) (Hialeah, Miami Beach: middle-class, employment, incomes)

[somebodymiami]

well we dont have much money after my mom pays all the bills, like not even sometimes to buy a movie ticket, and yeah the thing about the house is true, in the bahamas all the houses look like crap on the outside but have nice stereo systems and sometimes nice tv's, its so people think they dont have money.

Originally Posted by citizen477

Well, Miami's white-flight happened decades ago, so obviously the buildings would no longer be abandoned at this present time. What we are experiencing in these neighborhoods is a sense of hopelessness. Most of these citizens are law-abiding citizens, but think about it: after most of them pay the mortgage, there's barely enough money left to gas-up the car or even to put food on the table; also, after working back-to-back shifts, where is the financial resources or the time going to come from to maintain a home with a yard no less? Now, I'm not finding excuses for these people, but it can't be easy to fix up your house, making it look good only to have it broken into the next day. As a result, many of these residents probably don't see the use in caring for their homes the way most other Floridians do because if it looks too well-taken care of, the assumption might be that the tenants have money and would, therefore, be sitting ducks for break-ins.

[DanMarino]

you forgot to show the worst part......the people that hang out in these places!!!!

[pondjc]

I think all "hoods" look the same. Philly, Chicago, DC, NYC, every large city has a hood...

[Cougar Beach]

Tjam>>> What percentage of the low income people living in these neighborhoods (as per the pics) actually sell drugs, rob people and blast music in their homes?

CB>> Good question. Another question is, what percentage of people living in these neighborhoods have juvi or adult conviction records?

citizen477> Okay, so what exactly is the point of posing a question like that? I'm not following.

To understand the dynamic of a neighborhood, it helps to understand what percentage of its residents are incarcerated, or have been. A felony conviction record limits one's employment prospects, as does being behind bars.

More to the point, there should be some sort of correlation between crime rate in an area, and the conviction rate of its residents. It might point to the fact that a relatively small number of people commit a large percentage of crimes -- or not.

[citizen477]

Originally Posted by cuba libre

That's absolute B.S. There were blue collar/working class whites living in those homes before white flight. These lower-middle and middle class neighborhoods were beautiful when whites liven in them, now they look atrocious. Unkept lawns, streets strewn with garbage and abandoned shopping carts lining the sidewalks. Remember, I am talking about the working class areas (think Carol City, North Miami, North Miami Beach, Brownsville, El Portal, Westchester, West Miami, HIALEAH, Shenandoah area). I am talking about the working class areas of these towns, I know there are 'enclaves' or sections that are nicer.

Basically, you are talking about two generations, two groups, two races of people living on the SAME budget in the SAME houses. Yet the newest inhabitants make the same areas look ghetto. It's a shame. It's also not a question of age or deterioration of these areas, look how beautiful Coral Gables is, and it's the oldest area!

Clearly, you do not understand the historical patterns of the movement of city populations in the United States. In most neighborhoods surrounding downtown areas, the whites leave first and then minority populations, who tend to be less educated and less affluent, move in. And then they educate their children and end up leaving to better neighborhoods and then even poorer and lesser educated minorities and newly-arrived immigrants move in. Then, there is the all-too-popular gentrification, which is basically the offspring of the initial white population, in some cases, moving back into the downtowns with their huge disposable incomes and their penchant for urban living. It's a cycle or pattern that has taken place all over the nation in almost every major city.

But, there were enclaves that were pre-dominantly Black that did very well in their hayday. Take Overtown, for instance, it was a happening place back in mid-40's to the 50's. However, bad city planning and other factors destroyed this once-vibrant, pre-dominantly Black area.

Finally, this notion that people who live in these areas have the same budget is just ridiculous. You could be making $100,000 a year and I could be making $60,000, but my house might look nicer than yours because I have good credit and, therefore, a lot living expenses and services are a lot cheaper for me. Also, maybe I know friends who are carpenters and I'm pretty good with landscaping so I get a lot of my house fixtures done for free or at a heavily-reduced price. My point is that using income as a guage is tricky because it does not speak to what's REALLY going on in a family's or person's personal life or situation.

[zoomzoom3]

Looks better than some areas of St. Louis. Check out this site that features photos of North St. Louis:

Built St. Louis: The North Side | Tour map

A lot of places look like Berlin did at the end of WW2. It's pretty sad b/c 100 years ago some of these neighborhoods were pretty upscale, especially St. Louis Place. The architecture of many of the brick buildings here is impressive.

Oh, and Wellston which is just outside of STL city is also horrible:

Built St. Louis: The North Side | MLK West

Last but not least, East St. Lou:

Built St. Louis: East St. Louis

[citizen477]

Originally Posted by Cougar Beach

Tjam>>> What percentage of the low income people living in these neighborhoods (as per the pics) actually sell drugs, rob people and blast music in their homes?

CB>> Good question. Another question is, what percentage of people living in these neighborhoods have juvi or adult conviction records?

citizen477> Okay, so what exactly is the point of posing a question like that? I'm not following.

To understand the dynamic of a neighborhood, it helps to understand what percentage of its residents are incarcerated, or have been. A felony conviction record limits one's employment prospects, as does being behind bars.

More to the point, there should be some sort of correlation between crime rate in an area, and the conviction rate of its residents. It might point to the fact that a relatively small number of people commit a large percentage of crimes -- or not.

This is true; however, we would have to make the assumption that the crimes committed are by actual residents, as opposed to people from other neighborhoods.

[Mack wild]

Wow.

After seeing those pictures it becomes how clear it is that most of the people who complain about the bad things of Miami are definately out of touch. I mean those pics are absolutely no worse than any other city or even the small crappy town that I live in now .. totally on par and in many ways actually better looking.

[cuba libre]

Originally Posted by citizen477

Clearly, you do not understand the historical patterns of the movement of city populations in the United States. In most neighborhoods surrounding downtown areas, the whites leave first and then minority populations, who tend to be less educated and less affluent, move in. And then they educate their children and end up leaving to better neighborhoods and then even poorer and lesser educated minorities and newly-arrived immigrants move in. It's a cycle or pattern that has taken place all over the nation in almost every major city.

The areas I described - North Miami, NMB, Opa Locka, El Portal, Shenandoah, Hialeah, Westchester, and so on are SUBURBS. We're not talking about the inner city, we're talking about other cities in Miami-Dade county or unincorporated areas. What happened to ALL of Miami-Dade County is unheard of (nothing like this has ever happened to an entire county before)

You can't sing your 'gentrification, social justice, 'cycle of poverty' song because it doesn't apply to Miami's case. The whole county is not inner city...

Originally Posted by citizen477

But, there were enclaves that were pre-dominantly Black that did very well in their hayday. Take Overtown, for instance, it was a happening place back in mid-40's to the 50's. However, bad city planning and other factors destroyed this once-vibrant, pre-dominantly Black area.

What a shame, right?? I remember seeing pictures of Overtown during the 40's and 50's and the streets were filled with vibrant activity, they were bustling. Those were the days before welfare and government handouts, and DRUGS.

Originally Posted by citizen477

Finally, this notion that people who live in these areas have the same budget is just ridiculous. You could be making $100,000 a year and I could be making $60,000, but my house might look nicer than yours because I have good credit and, therefore, a lot living expenses and services are a lot cheaper for me. Also, maybe I know friends who are carpenters and I'm pretty good with landscaping so I get a lot of my house fixtures done for free or at a heavily-reduced price. My point is that using income as a guage is tricky because it does not speak to what's REALLY going on in a family's or person's personal life or situation.

Person A: White male electrician making $45,000/year leaves House A in good condition

Person B: Minority male electrician making $45,000/year moves into House A and the condition deteriorates, as well as surrounding area. (minority male took white male's job and moved into his house)

Minorities of all colors moved in and filled the employment positions that whites abandoned. They also moved into the white people's former neighborhoods, one house at a time. Everything is the same except for the condition of the homes. Now they are in worse condition.

[somebodymiami]

Miami's inner city neighborhoods don't have abandoned blocks of houses, as it had a population growth not decline like detroit, so it doesn't look like the Midwest city's. and they look worse in person, take a trip down to Brownsville( brown subs) and tell me it isn't bad. the suburbs of Miami are worse looking than the inner city. some parts of Hialeah look worse than the black ghettos .

Originally Posted by Mack wild

Wow.

After seeing those pictures it becomes how clear it is that most of the people who complain about the bad things of Miami are definately out of touch. I mean those pics are absolutely no worse than any other city or even the small crappy town that I live in now .. totally on par and in many ways actually better looking.

most of the buildings in Miami's "inner city" neighborhoods are 3 to 4 story buildings also, as seen in pic.