Miami's ghetto areas (pictures included) (Hialeah, Carol City: condo, pre-k, gardens)

[cuba libre]

Originally Posted by citizen477

Alright, then, educate me. What is your point? Miami's gentrification pattern is different from other metropolitan areas and, therefore________________. Please fill in that blank.

Miami is not experiencing 'gentrification' in the classical sense of the word, because a few high rise condominiums used by seasonal tourists hardly constitutes a 'full time' population moving into a 'formerly poor area'. The only major demographic shift in Miami's downtown and Design District is 'population displacement'. The poor and mostly black population west of Biscayne Blvd. was forcibly moved from the old tenant buildings that they inhabited, while the bums were scurried out by the City of Miami. This was a recipe for disaster...

Not all of the poor were removed, enough negative influence still exists that Publix and Whole Foods have both rejected moving into the area. Well, actually, Publix NEVER entertained the thought of moving downtown, whereas Whole Foods actually signed a contract with Met 2 towers, but pulled out in November '08 as the result of "not enough high income people moving into the area, as well as a poor local labor pool to run the place".

I would give the article to this, but it is imbedded in another blog/forum and therefore against TOS.

So Miami is NOT being gentrified, and the county's 1980's-2000 white flight is unheard of... And all of South Florida is starting to suffer from the same epidemic. Not inner city, Florida City is not "inner city", though it is ghetto thick and through.

[noland123]

There are bad areas of Jacksonville that would make those last dozen or so pictures on this page of Miami's Overtown look like a resort area,especially in the industrial areas of Jax. Miami has bad neighborhoods get over it,Jacksonville has worse by far and many square miles of it.

[crisp444]

We are going to have to disagree about Westchester. It is an area that is middle class in both appearance and in the socioeconomic status of its residents. Your statistics are the same as mine here; I wasn't talking about "Hispanics," I was talking about people who are white (both Hispanic and non-Hispanic).

Since Westchester is about 94% white and about 14% of those people are non-"Hispanic," that leaves you with about 80% of the population that is white Hispanic. "Other race" and "two or more races" combined is 5% (indicating Hispanic mestizos/mulattos pretty much), so there you go: Westchester is 85% "Hispanic." However, that says very little because Westchester is heavy with second-generation Americans and also first-generation Americans who were born in Cuba but raised from childhood on in Miami. My point is pretty clear: it's unfair to say that just because an area is heavily "Hispanic," it has been "purged of white residents" as you said in an earlier post.

[cuba libre]

Originally Posted by crisp444

We are going to have to disagree about Westchester. It is an area that is middle class in both appearance and in the socioeconomic status of its residents. Your statistics are the same as mine here; I wasn't talking about "Hispanics," I was talking about people who are white (both Hispanic and non-Hispanic).

Since Westchester is about 94% white and about 14% of those people are non-"Hispanic," that leaves you with about 80% of the population that is white Hispanic. "Other race" and "two or more races" combined is 5% (indicating Hispanic mestizos/mulattos pretty much), so there you go: Westchester is 85% "Hispanic." However, that says very little because Westchester is heavy with second-generation Americans and also first-generation Americans who were born in Cuba but raised from childhood on in Miami. My point is pretty clear: it's unfair to say that just because an area is heavily "Hispanic," it has been "purged of white residents" as you said in an earlier post.

Key: "Other race" ie "mixed" is MUCH bigger than the census knew about in 2000. Expect big changes in the 2010 census, both in how they measure mixed races and in how well that account for how many 'true' whites there are. Remember, people filling out a census form can lie; nobody's holding a gun to their heads threatening them with death if they check the "white" box....In all fairness and honesty, at least half the people I see in that area have few white traits, but have dark brown eyes, black hair, and brownish, cafe-color skin.

[crisp444]

I will be glad to use the 2010 numbers when they come out. Until then, I will say that yes, there seem to be more mixed-race people in all of Miami-Dade now than there were in 2000. However, an area like Westchester still has a white Cuban/Cuban-American majority. There has, however, been an influx of mestizo/mulatto people in many areas of Miami-Dade, but not enough to overshadow all of the white Cubans and South Americans. Though Kendall and similar areas are still very "white" I do notice a lot more mestizo/mulatto Venezuelans and Colombians around than I did years ago. This is not a bad thing to me though because they tend to buy into middle class neighborhoods in SW Miami-Dade and keep their properties well-maintained. I cannot necessarily say the same about some areas of the City of Miami and surrounding unincorporated areas that used to be Cuban but are now Central American, however. But to be fair, such areas are working class / lower income and were never known for their beautiful homes/landscaping.

[cuba libre]

Originally Posted by crisp444

I will be glad to use the 2010 numbers when they come out. Until then, I will say that yes, there seem to be more mixed-race people in all of Miami-Dade now than there were in 2000. However, an area like Westchester still has a white Cuban/Cuban-American majority. There has, however, been an influx of mestizo/mulatto people in many other working class areas of Miami-Dade, but not enough to overshadow all of the white Cubans and South Americans. Though Kendall and similar areas are still very "white" I do notice a lot more mestizo/mulatto Venezuelans and Colombians around than I did years ago. This is not a bad thing to me though because they tend to buy into middle class neighborhoods in SW Miami-Dade and keep their properties well-maintained. I cannot necessarily say the same about some areas of the City of Miami and surrounding unincorporated areas that used to be Cuban but are now Central American, however. But to be fair, the area of which I speak are working class / lower income and were never known for their beautiful homes/landscaping.

My times in Miami (and South Florida) date back to the early 1990s. I have been visiting and living in Miami long enough to notice a BIG shift in demographics. I also think that the old Cubans are just as dismayed at the current trends as the whites who moved out (or still happen to live there). There are serious problems growing in Miami that negatively affect its Human Development (The Human Development Index (HDI) - the measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, standard of living, and GDP per capita). In other words, unless we get help from the Federal Gov't, Miami will slide further into poverty, illiteracy, and general 3rd world underdevelopment.

Our shores can't provide for the world...

[ddrox08]

[crisp444]

I was raised in South Florida, and grew up spending substantial time in the Keys and the southern Miami-Dade suburbs between 1985 and 2003. I have lived outside of South Florida since 2003, but still return to visit family and friends a few times per year. I agree that there have been changes in demographics; I even have white Hispanic friends (mostly Cuban-American) who groan about the Central Americans (you're one of the only people I've ever heard complain about the middle class to wealthy South Americans, though) who have settled in Sweetwater, the City of Miami, parts of Hialeah, and some areas of unincorporated Miami-Dade. However, I disagree that illegal immigration is a huge problem in Miami-Dade County, at least when compared to many places where day laborers line the streets and where hospitals are shutting down due to all of the illegal immigrants using the services without paying for them. Miami-Dade's Latin American population is still overwhelmingly either US-citizen or with papers. I do not believe that Miami-Dade will "slide further into poverty" because the children of immigrants tend to move into the middle class. Unfortunately, the process is lacking in many poor, inner-city communities of people whose families have been in this country for generations.

[somebodymiami]

Originally Posted by noland123

There are bad areas of Jacksonville that would make those last dozen or so pictures on this page of Miami's Overtown look like a resort area,especially in the industrial areas of Jax. Miami has bad neighborhoods get over it,Jacksonville has worse by far and many square miles of it.

take some for us then?



ddroxx,what area did you take your pics in? thanks.

[cuba libre]

Originally Posted by crisp444

(you're one of the only people I've ever heard complain about the middle class to wealthy South Americans, though) who have settled in Sweetwater, the City of Miami, parts of Hialeah, and some areas of unincorporated Miami-Dade.

I think that day laborers are essential to our economy. However, I have no official 'stance' on illegal immigration. Our politicians are too incompetent to fix such a complicated situation. On the upper class South American 'condo vulture class', I have problems with their arrogance and blunt disregard for American manners, culture, and driving laws. Also, I despise their Spanish-only habits. In a previous post on this thread, I detailed how my girlfriend and I had difficult time having a substantive with anyone in Mary Brickell Village, arguably the epicenter of the "New" Latin upper class. They almost immediately reverted to their native tongues, essentially killing any conversations that I or my GF had with them. Plus, I think that their speculation and 'funny money' habits have actually hurt Miami's real estate market big time.

As far as the Latin middle class, all they did was take jobs that whites had, only for lower pay. They didn't take my job, but I know many who are qualified for jobs in Miami but would never take them becuase of hte low pay - induced by Latin immigrants doing the same job for less.

Originally Posted by crisp444

However, I disagree that illegal immigration is a huge problem in Miami-Dade County, at least when compared to many places where day laborers line the streets and where hospitals are shutting down due to all of the illegal immigrants using the services without paying for them.

I NEVER said anything about illegal immigration. You put those words in my mouth. Illegal immigration is irrelevent to Miami's problems, though it does exist to a slightly greater extent than most U.S. cities.

Who said that excessive legal immigration could never be a problem? I believe it is a problem, though one that is nearly impossible to solve without curtailing nearly all immigration. After all, you can't tell them where to settle, can you? As soon as many of these people get cleared, they come to one place most of the time: Mee-hami.