Let the Coral Gables' Cuban junta take over Havana? Let America's 'vulture capitalists' destroy Cuba? (Miami: attorneys, buying)

[tallrick]

That was my original point. If some Miami elite think they should run Cuba let them go there and leave Miami behind. The thing that gets me upset is when foreigners invest money in a country to get rich at the expense of the residents. Is that not what fueled the Castro "revolution" in the first place? The corruption was so bad that the Cuban people accepted a dictator just to cut the strings of US control. Decades of oppression and poverty and the people are expected to accept the dirtbags from Miami as their savior?

[Thomas Jefferson]

Originally Posted by tallrick

That was my original point. If some Miami elite think they should run Cuba let them go there and leave Miami behind. The thing that gets me upset is when foreigners invest money in a country to get rich at the expense of the residents. Is that not what fueled the Castro "revolution" in the first place? The corruption was so bad that the Cuban people accepted a dictator just to cut the strings of US control. Decades of oppression and poverty and the people are expected to accept the dirtbags from Miami as their savior?

Maybe you are right. But I guess that at the end of the road, money always wins. Nonetheless, the links between the US and Cuba after a posible fall of the "revolution" will be stronger in comparission with the pre- revolution era.

[Luiso]

Originally Posted by tallrick

That was my original point. If some Miami elite think they should run Cuba let them go there and leave Miami behind. The thing that gets me upset is when foreigners invest money in a country to get rich at the expense of the residents. Is that not what fueled the Castro "revolution" in the first place? The corruption was so bad that the Cuban people accepted a dictator just to cut the strings of US control. Decades of oppression and poverty and the people are expected to accept the dirtbags from Miami as their savior?

-----------

No one knew he was going to turn out the way he did which is why he had such support.
I have older family members like my grandmother who initially loved him than again she re-elects all the Miami incumbents so no judge of character .
In the end it was replacing one dictator with another -corruption with corruption though this particular parasite and his brother are nightmares but in the end its organized political crime as usual in Cuba.

Dont kid yourself Miami's political Cosa Nostra is cut from the same fabric but ONLY being attached to USA aka FBI does it keep them a bit in line.
Rep or Dem matters not.

Even than MANY push the envelope of corruption and certainly ALL do close to nothing .

[jbravo]

Originally Posted by tallrick

That was my original point. If some Miami elite think they should run Cuba let them go there and leave Miami behind. The thing that gets me upset is when foreigners invest money in a country to get rich at the expense of the residents. Is that not what fueled the Castro "revolution" in the first place? The corruption was so bad that the Cuban people accepted a dictator just to cut the strings of US control. Decades of oppression and poverty and the people are expected to accept the dirtbags from Miami as their savior?

That's the fair tallrick I remember.

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I have to agree with most of the posts here.
Back to the OP.
I really think that we tend to think too highly of the effectiveness of these "groups."
I mean, it's not as if they have been effective for these past decades.
-
Re: properties.
Maybe I am totally off, I just don't think that any property can really be "bought" at this time.
Two interesting notes, after the walls collapse, it took decades to sort through the legal remedies that Germans on the West sought on properties taken by either the Nazis pre-45 or the communist post 47.
Secondly, Castro did try private ownership in Havana in the mid 90s.
Properties (condos) were sold to Europeans circa 94 when foreign currency was desperately needed.
Later the money was given back and the private property rights were annulled.
Whichever poster before said that properties were being sold in case there was a future, nailed it; if there is a future.
Last note, we take for granted title insurance in the US, even if Castro and Raul died tomorrow (or yesterday) who is going to ensure title to what you buy in Fl, Lloyds of London?

[vpcats]

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

VPCats:

Perhaps because you have been here for such a long time, but Cuba and its system, especially its judicial system is very corrupt. This characteristics works in favor of so many "legal issues", everybody needs money, even the commies. I landed two years ago and let me tell you that there are many folks who have bought property in Cuba. Nonetheless, the good places are too hot to buy, Vedado, Miramar, Siboney, Varadero, Guanabo and East Habana. Although, in the case of Varadero, people are buying houses in near areas, which will skyrocket in the future, if there is a future. Moreover, in the good areas of Matanzas city, people are buying houses for a dime, just to give you a price, eight thousand dollars for a waterfront house that is in one of the best neighborhood of this city.

I do not doubt for one second that the primary language in Cuba is "bribery". Their second language is "theft".

I would love to have proof about availability of purchasing property there. Eight thousand dollars? Prove it. For any property, not necessarily waterfront. Could be a hole in the ground. Just prove you, or I, or the guy down the street corner can go there and buy property now.

BTW...what do you mean "I landed two years ago". Where did you land and where did you land from? You wouldn't be wrong if you think I am not exactly buying your statements.

[vpcats]

Originally Posted by jbravo

It was you.
I've read the OPs post more than once, and still don't see the urgency or "newness" of the post.
Oh, vpcats, I've sat with these people, the Diaz sons and the old man, I have family who still have patents from Cuba going back over a 100 years, and vast land grants of course.
I knew a prominent Cuban who had correspondence with Castro on a regular basis.
I've sat with revolutionaries that had a change of heart in 1960.
I play the naive, dumb, upset guy on this forum a lot.
I just don't give a lot of credence to a bunch of my fellow Cubans sitting and discussing how they are going to "transition" Cuba. It's so much Cubans taking &@#* (And I am as much a Cuban as you are)
Everything I've read from the Island and from intelligence reports publicly available point to the exile community being a minor influence in the future political system on the Island.
And thank God for that, after all, they scr*wed it up in the first place.
There is nothing new to the OPs post.
And yes, I was aware of the group you referenced.

Sorry. My resume is not as impressive.

I don't think that all the plans are coming only from *#*%$@* talking Cubans.

[jbravo]

Originally Posted by vpcats

Sorry. My resume is not as impressive.

I don't think that all the plans are coming only from *#*%$@* talking Cubans.

I'm sure you're right.
But if they are the same people that have been dreaming up plans for the last 60 years, then we will all know they are the same people even if none of us ever attend a single meeting.
We shall all know for the simple reason that the result will be identical to all past results: nothing.

[sunrico90]

Originally Posted by cuba libre

There is an army of lawyers amassing in Coral Gables, Fl. I thought this would be an interesting forum to offer a good discussion about the future of Cuba.


They represent the interests of a few former land owning families from Cuba pre-1959. Are there people in Miami who believe that the forcible removal of Cubans from their homes to make way for -or to simply retake property that was once theirs is justified? I am afraid these few represented individuals and their 'families' will take over their Havana properties and forcibly evict thousands of Cubans who have lived on their properties for the better part of half a century.

There is nothing that would make me sicker than a Cuba with McDonalds, Taco Bell and Starbucks on every corner. Puerto Rico has totally prostituted itself to American levels of cheap corporatization and franchise monopolization. If the rich Miami Cubans buy (or forcibly overtake) vast tracts of prime Havana real estate ie the Malecon row buildings, Old Havana, 5th Ave. (embassy row) etc, and then give whatever's left - the scraps - to vulture corporatists who will build rows of fast food restaurants for 'ordinary Cubans' in the impoverished edges of La Habana, Cuba will forever be lost.

What is the best choice:

Allow Cuba to develop own resources under a democratic government?

Involvement from Cuban Americans to create the new Monaco in the Caribbean?

Allow USA to influence the future of the country as an annexation?


Allow Chavez to influence the future of the country as an annexation?

Leave as is and hope for the best?

Pick one and present your discussion....

[northernyankee]

The Island of Cuba in its entirety is the property of the criminal empire of the Castro-Ruiz family. The Island was stolen (predominantly) between the years of 1959 through 1961 (reason for embargo act). Anyone doing business in Cuba (ie: Spain,China, and Venezuela) does so at the sole discretion of the Castros (which is an extremely large family, with many ambiguous agendas and nobody has a real job). Terms and conditions of any business on the island, are set forth by the Castros as long as they consent. The moment they change their minds for whatever reason your out of your business, your money, your property, and maybe more.
With an organization so unpredictable and dubious I would argue, its just not worth the risk.
Anyone, doing any business in Cuba better watch their respective azz.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Originally Posted by vpcats

I do not doubt for one second that the primary language in Cuba is "bribery". Their second language is "theft".

I would love to have proof about availability of purchasing property there. Eight thousand dollars? Prove it. For any property, not necessarily waterfront. Could be a hole in the ground. Just prove you, or I, or the guy down the street corner can go there and buy property now.

BTW...what do you mean "I landed two years ago". Where did you land and where did you land from? You wouldn't be wrong if you think I am not exactly buying your statements.

You are right, the term is not "buy" but "bribery" or "theft." Morevoer, I totally agree that the missing of a judicial system, more exactly, a property law system is a risk to any business in the future Cuba, especially if it is related to real state. But hey, that's the risk of the person who is buying properties right now(buy cheap). There is no necesity to prove you anything about "the availability of purchasing property there." I only told you what I saw and lived from my own experience so you or anyone does not have to buy my statements. However, do you want to bet that in the future you will sadly remember this litter chat?