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Florida: Wilma, low property values, condos, construction, commissioners, counties permission

 
 
Old 12-18-2008, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
362 posts, read 530,150 times
Reputation: 206

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So I have convinced myself to move to S. Florida next December after I graduate. I've seen all the hate for S. Florida, especially Miami on this board, but just choose not to take it literal. I've been to many parts of S. Florida, and kind of see what people are talking about, but not the extremes that it's exaggerated at. So anyway, I had a customer today who just flew in from Miami, and was telling me how she wants to move to Metro Atlanta in a heartbeat everytime she comes up here. I asked her why, and she said, S. Florida has been "Built-out" before Wilma, but since Wilma hit, construction keeps taking place, becaue these constrution companies have contracts to finish their work. She told me no houses are being built, creating shortages, only condos, and propety values are extremely low. She's trying to sell her home, worth $450,000 in South Broward but can only settle for no more than $250,000. She also said people are rude, which I already know, but expect from a large city. So, my question is, Is S. Florida really built out, with no room to expand, and what is your opinion on the future of S. Florida in terms of economy and quality of life?
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Old 12-18-2008, 07:10 PM
Status: "Happy Holidays!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Miami
6,477 posts, read 13,142,548 times
Reputation: 2505
South Florida isn't like Atlanta where there is land all around Atlanta to build on. South Florida has the ocean to the east, Everglades National Park to the west (though some bad commisioners would love to expand the boundaries into the park, sham on them if they ever do that), and then we have the ocean to the south. Most if not all of Broward County and Miami-Dade County is built on with an exceptions of a few small pockets of rural areas. So what has happened in boom time recently, is developers would by a piece of property and build up (condos) on that piece of land if they could get the counties permission. So we can't expand as other parts of this country can continue to do. I hope that explains it.

As far as quality of life, that is a really relative question, as the answers to that are all subjective.

As far as the economy, I don't have a crystal ball... A lot of our economy is based on tourism here, and if people around the country or the world for that matter don't take vacations like they did in the past, South Florida will continue to suffer in some way. Our biggest problem is the over amount of homes on the market due to foreclosures, we need to have some homes cleared out of the market here before we start to see any turn around on that front.
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Old 12-18-2008, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
362 posts, read 530,150 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiebus View Post
South Florida isn't like Atlanta where there is land all around Atlanta to build on. South Florida has the ocean to the east, Everglades National Park to the west, and the ocean to the south. Most if not all of Broward County and Miami-Dade County is built on with an exceptions of a few small pockets of rural areas. So what has happened in recently in the boom time recently, is developers would by a piece of property and build up (condos) on that piece of land. So we can't expand as other parts of this country can continue to do.

As far as quality of life, that is a really relative question, as the answers to that are all subjective.

As far as the economy, I don't have a crystal ball... A lot of our economy is based on tourism here, and if people around the country or the world for that matter don't take vacations like they did in the past, South Florida will continue to suffer in some way. Our biggest problem is the over amount of homes on the market, we need to have some homes cleared out of the market here before we start to see any turn around on that front.

Ok, I see...this lady made it seem as though S. Florida was just a concrete jungle with no available land, and it's just building after building after building with ghettos and low property value. It was just kind of scary, becuase I definetly would not want to move to a city where I won't be able to buy a decent home in good, safe area.
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Old 12-18-2008, 07:24 PM
 
710 posts, read 1,468,610 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolieandre View Post
she wants to move to Metro Atlanta in a heartbeat everytime she comes up here. I asked her why, and she said, S. Florida has been "Built-out" before Wilma, but since Wilma hit, construction keeps taking place, becaue these constrution companies have contracts to finish their work.
Huh? What does Wilma have to do with anything? If she's saying SoFla is "built-out" then where is the construction? Downt condos? Yes, there are a few projects being finished. Drive around my neighborhood, there are almost as many home being remodeled as for sale.
She seems to be contradicting herself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolieandre View Post
She told me no houses are being built, creating shortages, only condos, and propety values are extremely low. She's trying to sell her home, worth $450,000 in South Broward but can only settle for no more than $250,000.
LAND in SoFla is pretty rare. There are some pockets left, but it IS getting to the point of "built-out." Just like LA or NYC etc etc.
Is Atlanta in the perimeter built-out? Yes, basically. They keep building further and further out up there. Does that make Virginia Highlands or Buckhead less desirable? Not to me.
Is she thinks her house is worth $450k and it can only sell for $250k then that's what it's worth. Is she still delusional from the bubble prices 2 years ago? Where in S Broward? Hollywood? Pembroke Pines? $250k seems pretty reasonable for a decent house in S Broward. If there are less homes being built, eventually those prices will go up (supply and demand).
See SoCal for how that works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolieandre View Post
So, my question is, Is S. Florida really built out, with no room to expand, and what is your opinion on the future of S. Florida in terms of economy and quality of life?
Kind of, yeah. A VERY good thing IMO. There is a strong trend in this country to move BACK towards the city centers. Suburbia has gotten out of hand and isn't tenable long term. Downtown Miami, Brickell, the beaches, Ft Lauderdale all have gone UP - physically.

If you want a brand new McMansion in a quiet sub-division for $300k, you won't find it in SoFla. If you want an older home in a great, charming, older neighborhood closer to the downtowns for $400k or a decent, smaller house in a quieter, leafier area like Plantation or Cooper City for $250-300k, or an almost McMansion in Weston for $500k or a condo overlooking the water then SoFla is great.
Your QoL can only be determined by YOU. We like living here, it suits us just fine. The vast majority of our friends and family like living here. Those that don't have already left. Others see nothing but issues and don't really take advantage of the opportunities here and it isn't worth it for them. To each his own.

The economy? SoFla is hit like everywhere. I think in general we have the best real economy in the state. There are REAL jobs with real companies here, but I wouldn't rank our economy above Atlanta's. Close to on par, but not quite as many opportunities overall for sure.

All MHO, good luck.

Last edited by planetsurf; 12-18-2008 at 07:52 PM..
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
362 posts, read 530,150 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetsurf View Post
Huh? What does Wilma have to do with anything? If she's saying SoFla is "built-out" then where is the construction? Downt condos? Yes, there are a few projects being finished. Drive around my neighborhood, there are almost as many home being remodeled as for sale.
She seems to be contradicting herself.


LAND in SoFla is pretty rare. There are some pockets left, but it IS getting to the point of "built-out." Just like LA or NYC etc etc.
Is Atlanta in the perimeter built-out? Yes, basically. They keep building further and further out up there. Does that make Virginia Highlands or Buckhead less desirable? Not to me.
Is she thinks her house is worth $450k and it can only sell for $250k then that's what it's worth. Is she still delusional from the bubble prices 2 years ago? Where in S Broward? Hollywood? Pembroke Pines? $250k seems pretty reasonable for a decent house in S Broward. If there are less homes being built, eventually those prices will go up (supply and demand).
See SoCal for how that works.


Kind of, yeah. A VERY good thing IMO. There is a strong trend in this country to move BACK towards the city centers. Suburbia has gotten out of hand and isn't tenable long term. Downtown Miami, Brickell, the beaches, Ft Lauderdale all have gone UP - physically.

If you want a brand new McMansion in a quiet sub-division for $300k, you won't find it in SoFla. If you want an older home in a great, charming, older neighborhood closer to the downtowns for $400k or a decent, smaller house in a quieter, leafier area like Plantation or Cooper City for $250-300k, or an almost McMansion in Weston for $500k or a condo overlooking the water then SoFla is great.
Your QoL can only be determined by YOU. We like living here, it suits us just fine. The vast majority of our friends and family like living here. Those that don't have already left. Others see nothing but issues and don't really take advantage of the opportunities here and it isn't worth it for them. To each his own.

The economy? SoFla is hit like everywhere. I think in general we have the best real economy in the state. There are REAL jobs with real companies here, but I wouldn't rank our economy above Atlanta's. Close to on par, but not quite as many opportunities overall for sure.

All MHO, good luck.

That makes a lot of sense, and for the most part, I always enjoyed S. Florida, and all it had to offer. Plus, with a degree in business marketing concentrating in Tourism, I think S. Florida will be the right spot. I guess that lady had some other "serious" issues on her mind...LoL!
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:06 AM
 
Location: USA
221 posts, read 635,448 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolieandre View Post
Ok, I see...this lady made it seem as though S. Florida was just a concrete jungle with no available land, and it's just building after building after building with ghettos and low property value. It was just kind of scary, becuase I definetly would not want to move to a city where I won't be able to buy a decent home in good, safe area.
I am also confused because it sounded like you have been here several times and if you had been here you would know that this is simply not true.

Going on vacation to a place and living there is two different concepts... Miami does have many faults but many virtues like everywhere else... The thing is that, can you handle the faults? The virtues are always great as long as they dont outweigh the virtues...

Good luck on your move and remember, RENT before you BUY...

Get to know the city...
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh, NC
2,082 posts, read 5,135,796 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolieandre View Post
Ok, I see...this lady made it seem as though S. Florida was just a concrete jungle with no available land, and it's just building after building after building with ghettos and low property value. It was just kind of scary, becuase I definetly would not want to move to a city where I won't be able to buy a decent home in good, safe area.
Here's the deal: S. FL is not a concrete jungle. It also does not have a lot of vacant available land left to develop. What is built on all the land? Houses for the most part. Most of unincorporated Miami-Dade is suburban subdivisions. The farther west you go, the more affordable, for the most part. Also, the farther west you go, the smaller the lot sizes, as developers realized that the land was running out and wanted to make the most profit off their land without building upward (which costs more).

Property values are obviously down in FL from what they have been, and will probably be like this for a while since they were not realistic for a few years. This should be common knowledge by now. Some people that bought at the peak of the bubble are still delusional and think their house is worth what they payed for it, even though what they paid was a falsely inflated value. It is no one's fault but their own that they paid more for something than it was really worth. The market is no longer bearing those kinds of values, and property is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. It is possible to find a decent house in a nice area, depending on what your definitions are of "decent", "nice", "safe" and how much you can afford.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Miami Beach, FL
107 posts, read 248,808 times
Reputation: 52
I love how that woman claims that south FL has no room to expand, yet property values are LOW.
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:16 AM
 
8,289 posts, read 7,314,628 times
Reputation: 4808
^ contradictory right? A lack of land should put pressure on housing prices not the opposite! The lady was right about Miami & the Ft Lauderdale metros being built out since they are sandwiched in between the Ocean & the Everglades. In addition Miami Dade county has a Urban Development line since the mid '70s which bars any further development encroaching into the Everglades portion not covered by the national park.
The distance between downtown Miami on the east to the Urban development line (US 27 / Krome Ave) on the west is roughly 15 miles or so. Due to these land restrictions Miami is easily one of the densest metros in the nation which is unlike Atlanta that has room to spread.
As for quality of life that is all relative but it is certainly better than it was 20 some odd years ago.
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Old 12-20-2008, 08:54 AM
 
812 posts, read 763,511 times
Reputation: 413
Part of what is most disappointing is that the few people in Miami Dade who saw this stuff coming in the 70's and pleaded for more rapid transit infrastructure were ignored. When I was growing up, you could easily get from one end of town to the other in about 40 minutes, now it takes that long to get 5 miles with all the traffic. And of course the transit options are laughable.
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