Cuban population, birth rate falling: official (Miami: 2009, credit, home)

[canovas]

Originally Posted by cuba libre

Miami no longer hinges solely on Cuba anymore. Stop living in the 80's. Other horribly corrupt countries expell their undesirables on our shores to, ya know. I would take all the Cubans in Miami over the most recent additions like Haitians and Central Americans... That's my Miami speel.

So would I -- I am a Spaniard and most Miami cubans are the descendants of Spaniards -- we are much better emigres than many other people who speak Spanish because normally Cubans would like to return to Cuba for example, as it was when Spaniards would emigrate to Germany or Cuba or some other countries -- most of us made loadsamoney and returned to Spain. Cubans are temporary emigres and normally do not seek welfare. In Spain the Cubans are very well integrated but many illegals from Ecuador or Colombia for example just keep asking for more welfare.

That's sad...and it's even sadder that civilized countries accept some of these people who are integrated in mafias.

[canovas]

Why do some people insist on saying there is "rudeness" in Miami? Is it because people are not constantly walking around with a big fake smile on their face or because people dont say "thank you" in the bar (where you are actually paying for service?). I am spending some days in NYC and one of the most annoying things I find here is this whole "please" or "thanks" business, even when you, the client, are forced to tip the waiters here in bars and despite the fact that there is a city wide smoke ban.

When I lived in Miami the great thing about it was that it's a very much "do your own thing" city without the frills and the smiles you get in a place like NYC.

[Cougar Beach]

Originally Posted by canovas

So would I -- I am a Spaniard and most Miami cubans are the descendants of Spaniards -- we are much better emigres than many other people who speak Spanish because normally Cubans would like to return to Cuba for example, as it was when Spaniards would emigrate to Germany or Cuba or some other countries -- most of us made loadsamoney and returned to Spain. Cubans are temporary emigres and normally do not seek welfare. In Spain the Cubans are very well integrated but many illegals from Ecuador or Colombia for example just keep asking for more welfare.

That's sad...and it's even sadder that civilized countries accept some of these people who are integrated in mafias.

You don't seem to understand what is meant by the "Miami Cuban Mafia". It's not to be taken literally. It is not about organized crime. It is about Cuban "refugees", most of whom are American citizens, but have no real allegiance to they U.S. Their plan from the start was to go back to Cuba, get back their property, and live happily ever after, after the U.S. takes out the trash for them. They are living in a dream world, the dream world that many political exiles live in.

Cubans immigrants, from the start, have had a lot of programs available. Many, many Cubans did not hesitate to take money from government programs. If you want to play semantic games, you can call it something other than welfare. I'm not holding it against them; I'm just stating a fact.

Meanwhile, this Mafia seemed to have a very narrow political agenda: U.S. (and local!) policy toward Cuba. Nothing else mattered. If a political candidate said the "wrong" thing about Cuba, he was finished. Even Democratic presidential candidates would pander, which is ironic, since they did not stand to get many Cuban votes (memories of Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs die hard).

You seem to have a strong prejudice against immigrants from other Latin countries, especially Central Americans. I have no idea what your opinions are based on. I've met many people from those cultures, and I'm not sure what you're talking about.

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As far as rudeness is concerned, we're not talking about blissed-out people invading your personal space. Insincere friendliness, such as practiced by a lot of people in the tourist industry, is a turn-off for everyone, not just people from European countries.

The issue is a lack of civilized behavior, like like jumping, cutting people off in traffic, people carrying things in pickup trucks and not worrying tying down their loads, clerks in stores acting like you're really imposing on them when asking for help (I'm not even talking about their lack of a clue about what they're selling), waiters who have a small number of tables to take care of yet are nowhere to be found, people dumping trash any place they find convenient, people letting their dogs poop on other people's property and not picking it up, drivers not stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks, etc. THAT is what is meant by rudeness.

It was not like that when I learned to drive in Miami in the late 70's. It clearly was 20 years later. By then I'd lived in the Boston area for a while, so Miami wasn't a shock. It felt the similar on the road, but without the snow.

[canovas]

Originally Posted by Cougar Beach

You don't seem to understand what is meant by the "Miami Cuban Mafia". It's not to be taken literally. It is not about organized crime. It is about Cuban "refugees", most of whom are American citizens, but have no real allegiance to they U.S. Their plan from the start was to go back to Cuba, get back their property, and live happily ever after, after the U.S. takes out the trash for them. They are living in a dream world, the dream world that many political exiles live in.

Cubans immigrants, from the start, have had a lot of programs available. Many, many Cubans did not hesitate to take money from government programs. If you want to play semantic games, you can call it something other than welfare. I'm not holding it against them; I'm just stating a fact.

Meanwhile, this Mafia seemed to have a very narrow political agenda: U.S. (and local!) policy toward Cuba. Nothing else mattered. If a political candidate said the "wrong" thing about Cuba, he was finished. Even Democratic presidential candidates would pander, which is ironic, since they did not stand to get many Cuban votes (memories of Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs die hard).

You seem to have a strong prejudice against immigrants from other Latin countries, especially Central Americans. I have no idea what your opinions are based on. I've met many people from those cultures, and I'm not sure what you're talking about.

------------------------------------

As far as rudeness is concerned, we're not talking about blissed-out people invading your personal space. Insincere friendliness, such as practiced by a lot of people in the tourist industry, is a turn-off for everyone, not just people from European countries.

The issue is a lack of civilized behavior, like like jumping, cutting people off in traffic, people carrying things in pickup trucks and not worrying tying down their loads, clerks in stores acting like you're really imposing on them when asking for help (I'm not even talking about their lack of a clue about what they're selling), waiters who have a small number of tables to take care of yet are nowhere to be found, people dumping trash any place they find convenient, people letting their dogs poop on other people's property and not picking it up, drivers not stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks, etc. THAT is what is meant by rudeness.

It was not like that when I learned to drive in Miami in the late 70's. It clearly was 20 years later. By then I'd lived in the Boston area for a while, so Miami wasn't a shock. It felt the similar on the road, but without the snow.

Re: Cuban mafia

Ok, now I understand although I am not surprised -- that is precisely why, one of the reasons, why I am against dual nationality. I believe if people go to another country and want to be for example a US citizen, then their allegiance should be only to the US and US laws.

Re: Prejudice

I do have my biases, yes, although the way I express them are usually much stronger than what I practice. I don't doubt that there are many nice Latin Americans, in fact, I've met some of them -- my opinions are based mainly on other issues that have nothing to do with my personal dealings with them but with what they cost the Spanish social security system and the crime (although not all of them are criminals obviously) but many of them are committing crimes in Madrid and hurting the tourist industry.

Re: rudeness

Ah ok, well then yes, that would be rude indeed.

[Web B. Rowser]

Originally Posted by canovas

Why do some people insist on saying there is "rudeness" in Miami? Is it because people are not constantly walking around with a big fake smile on their face or because people dont say "thank you" in the bar (where you are actually paying for service?). I am spending some days in NYC and one of the most annoying things I find here is this whole "please" or "thanks" business, even when you, the client, are forced to tip the waiters here in bars and despite the fact that there is a city wide smoke ban.

When I lived in Miami the great thing about it was that it's a very much "do your own thing" city without the frills and the smiles you get in a place like NYC.

Miami seems like the place for you!

[Cougar Beach]

Originally Posted by canovas

Re: Cuban mafia

Ok, now I understand although I am not surprised -- that is precisely why, one of the reasons, why I am against dual nationality. I believe if people go to another country and want to be for example a US citizen, then their allegiance should be only to the US and US laws.

In Miami you will find a lot of people with a passport in addition to an American one. It does raise some questions.

On the other hand, I would love to have an EC passport, to increase employment possibilities. The medical care available there would be nice as well.

The U.S. healthcare system is very strange among industrialized countries (by far the most expensive, yet far from the best), and is egregiously poor in Miami, based on my family's experience. World class care is available here in some specialties (e.g., eye surgery at Bascom Palmer, spinal tumor surgery at Jackson Memorial), but beyond that, it's a wasteland. And even at Jackson, once you leave ICU, you're in a third world hospital. You'd better be prepared to hire a private nurse if you're on a patient floor there.

[canovas]

Originally Posted by Cougar Beach

In Miami you will find a lot of people with a passport in addition to an American one. It does raise some questions.

On the other hand, I would love to have an EC passport, to increase employment possibilities. The medical care available there would be nice as well.

The U.S. healthcare system is very strange among industrialized countries (by far the most expensive, yet far from the best), and is egregiously poor in Miami, based on my family's experience. World class care is available here in some specialties (e.g., eye surgery at Bascom Palmer, spinal tumor surgery at Jackson Memorial), but beyond that, it's a wasteland. And even at Jackson, once you leave ICU, you're in a third world hospital. You'd better be prepared to hire a private nurse if you're on a patient floor there.

Spain, in this regard, is quite good -- one of the best healthcare systems in the world and relatively (though this is changing) cheap -- it is actually the opposite of the US -- private clinics in MADRID are not as good as the public ones.

I just don't think a public system would work in the US though.

[Cougar Beach]

Originally Posted by canovas

I just don't think a public system would work in the US though.

Our current system is becoming affordable. Once people start demanding change en masse, the insurance lobby will finally take a back seat. I'm not talking about socialized medicine, but national health insurance. Like the French system, but not like the British system. By the way, based on results (and at much lower cost than the U.S.'s), the French have the best medical system in the world.

But that's a discussion for a different thread.

[canovas]

Originally Posted by Web B. Rowser

Miami seems like the place for you!

Oh of course - if I had to live permanently in the US, I would surely not stay in NYC but go to Miami or West Palm Beach. Failing that, California.

Cougar beach: you sound very informed about things -- that is good because sometimes I think some of the people around me are clueless.

[AtlantaGuy404]

Mexico, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay, Dominican Republic, Peru, Colombia, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaraugua, and Panama would all have to experience rapidly declining populations at the same time and lose all interest in migrating to South Florida and mass amounts of non-hispanics americans would have to flood Miami-Dade to make it American. Miami will always be a dominant hispanic area.