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Old 03-31-2009, 12:31 AM
 
Location: South Beach (MB, FL)
640 posts, read 1,161,024 times
Reputation: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuba libre View Post
Isn't Miami enough of an immersion enough if you want to learn Spanish? The idea of a Spanish immersion school in Miami just sounds ridiculous. Why can't we have English immersion schools in order to teach Miami's vast on-English speaking population how to speak it? I am pretty sure Miami-Dade has the most lop sided proportion of non-English speakers in the country.
Crisp444 answered your obviously sarcastic question well. The schools in Miami teach most of their courses in English. You cannot learn to be literate in Spanish by hanging out with the neighborhood kids. I can't believe you actually went to college.

Now are you going to crap on the French immersion programs as well?
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:49 AM
 
21 posts, read 63,735 times
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The best are Sunset Elementary, FC Martin K-8, GW Carver middle, Ammonds Middle, and many IB progams too. Go to dadeschools.net, then "new to disrict", then "school of choice" . Or call Dade Schools at 305-995-1000.
Good Luck. There are many great school's in Miami-Dade County, you just have to do your homework.
Cori2Mom
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:11 PM
 
Location: MIA
1,335 posts, read 2,236,320 times
Reputation: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar Beach View Post
Crisp444 answered your obviously sarcastic question well. The schools in Miami teach most of their courses in English. You cannot learn to be literate in Spanish by hanging out with the neighborhood kids. I can't believe you actually went to college.

Now are you going to crap on the French immersion programs as well?
My question was not sarcastic at all. And yet no one here has begun to answer it.

I'll ask it again, what value is there in a "Spanish immersion" school in a city where 66% of residents speak Spanish either at home or as a first language? All this does is fuel the rampant "no speakie English culture" in Miami. It also lends false credibility to the notion that bilingualism in the U.S.A. could ever work successfully. Most level headed people would agree that there is ENOUGH Spanish being spoken in Miami, and much of the SPanish jabber comes from people who can't put together 3 English words in a row. If there is any linguistic effort being made in Miami-Dade's schools, it should be to school the parents of students how to speak ENGLISH. (Night courses) But then again, that would be too much to ask of Miami's self serving, credit card rich non-English speakers.

Last edited by cuba libre; 03-31-2009 at 02:19 PM..
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:22 PM
 
3,369 posts, read 7,290,239 times
Reputation: 1569
I provided an on-point answer to your question. Sure, some of the older and newly-arrived immigrants certainly need English lessons, but no "English immersion" is needed for their children/grandchildren in public schools because guess what? They are learning to speak, read, and write English fluently and NOT Spanish. As a side note, you'd be surprised at how little Spanish you hear on the playground of a 90% + "Hispanic" school. Some of my friends who attended such schools and have parents/grandparents who spoke mostly/exclusively Spanish at home still cannot speak Spanish well and have never really practiced reading or writing it. English is their language of choice. The people I know (including myself) who speak, read, and write Spanish fluently had to really work hard at it by on our own time taking the initiative to read in Spanish, take college courses where we had to write papers in Spanish, live abroad in real Spanish-speaking countries, etc. If you think that growing up in West Kendall or Coral Terrace or Doral teaches you to be fluent in Spanish, you are sadly mistaken, for there is a world of difference between being able to ask your abuelita to make you some croquetas and talking about business, literature, or politics in professional/university-level Spanish.
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:44 PM
 
Location: MIA
1,335 posts, read 2,236,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
for there is a world of difference between being able to ask your abuelita to make you some croquetas and talking about business, literature, or politics in professional/university-level Spanish.
99% of Miami high school graduates go to college in the US of A, a place where (as of now) classes are taught in English. Why would writing essays in Spanish be important? At that time in their lives, they should be using their extra study time to prepare for the ACT or take AP classes, not read El Cid.

Basically I am saying it is pointless and a low priority to "preserve Spanish literature and poetry" at the expense of tens of millions of tax dollars. We have more important things to spend money on than giving abuelitas the comforting knowledge that the legendary El Cid will not be lost onto their grandkids. Honestly, the only people who would fuss if these schools disappeared overnight would be the old Hispanics in Miami who can't speak English - and I don't care what they think, they're pathetic for not learning English.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:02 PM
 
3,369 posts, read 7,290,239 times
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Interestingly enough, when I went to college the people who knew how to read/write in other languages in addition to English tended to do very well on the SAT, especially with regards to the reading/writing portion. Come to think of it, most of the people I knew who were fluent in Spanish or French scored over 1300 on the old 1600-point scale. Learning another language helps you to understand English even better. English is my first language, but learning Spanish taught me a lot about English grammar and vocabulary. I am not sure I would have scored 710/800 on the reading/writing portion of the SAT had I not already learned so much grammar and vocabulary in Spanish.

Furthermore, yes, I would be glad to spend (not "waste") millions of tax payers' dollars to fund better foreign language programs in American public schools. There is a reason for the European joke that goes:

What do you call someone who speaks three languages? -Trilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks two languages? -Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks only one language? -American.

Being so close to countries where Spanish and French is spoken, those languages should be taught in our schools. No one is challenging English. English ALWAYS WINS when it comes to a child's choice of what to speak here in the United States, regardless of whether that child grows up in Hagerstown, Honolulu, or Hialeah. If no one pushes fluency in other languages, those children will never learn to speak any language fluently besides English. Preventing this outcome, in my opinion, is worth millions of taxpayers' dollars.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:02 PM
 
Location: MIA
1,335 posts, read 2,236,320 times
Reputation: 544
Crisp, wouldn't you agree that El Cid is no longer relevent in today's choosy college entrance exams or the ruthless post graduate job market?

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Old 03-31-2009, 03:09 PM
 
3,369 posts, read 7,290,239 times
Reputation: 1569
True story: someone I know was recently hired at a large, American-based bank (job is located in Miami and work is done in English) with several international locations. Want to know the primary reason why his interviewer said he was hired? He speaks Portuguese. Admittedly, knowing another language doesn't make you any more qualified for a lot of jobs, but it certainly does for some. Besides, I wouldn't support spending tax dollars solely based on the theory that children with better test scores will come out of schools. Being able to communicate in a language other than English has social and intellectual value. Even if you disagree with me, would you support cutting music, art, and "soft sciences" like philosophy and sociology from our schools?
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: South Beach (MB, FL)
640 posts, read 1,161,024 times
Reputation: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuba libre View Post
Crisp, wouldn't you agree that El Cid is no longer relevent in today's choosy college entrance exams or the ruthless post graduate job market?

It smacks of "liberal studies", and you know anything that has anything to do with "liberal" is evil.

Go ahead, dumb down a whole 12 grades to El Cid and nothing more. You might as well dumb down education in English to Beowulf and Much Ado About Nothing.

Should we skip teaching useless, impractical things like literature, and teach everyone a trade? Or will you provide us a list of useful literature, oh great scholar?
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:57 PM
 
Location: MIA
1,335 posts, read 2,236,320 times
Reputation: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar Beach View Post
It smacks of "liberal studies", and you know anything that has anything to do with "liberal" is evil.

Go ahead, dumb down a whole 12 grades to El Cid and nothing more. You might as well dumb down education in English to Beowulf and Much Ado About Nothing.

Should we skip teaching useless, impractical things like literature, and teach everyone a trade? Or will you provide us a list of useful literature, oh great scholar?
The fact is that the U.S. is seriously lacking in engineering/science students; that is why we have to import them by the 747 load from Asia. You have to draw the line somewhere. If we don't get our act together we might end up useless and impotent like much of socialist Europe, where they don't give two craps about innovation, productiveness, or profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
True story: someone I know was recently hired at a large, American-based bank (job is located in Miami and work is done in English) with several international locations. Want to know the primary reason why his interviewer said he was hired? He speaks Portuguese. Admittedly, knowing another language doesn't make you any more qualified for a lot of jobs, but it certainly does for some. Besides, I wouldn't support spending tax dollars solely based on the theory that children with better test scores will come out of schools. Being able to communicate in a language other than English has social and intellectual value. Even if you disagree with me, would you support cutting music, art, and "soft sciences" like philosophy and sociology from our schools?
Miami represents a mere scrap of this country's total Hispanic population. Spanish is the official language of the underclass in the U.S. Why promote a language that in the rest of the U.S. is only spoken in tomato fields and McDonald's kitchens?

That Miami's ruling political "Junta" wants to rob non-Spanish speakers/non-Hispanics of valueable tax dollars so that the "majority" have the ability to send their kids to Spanish "cultural schools" should be a crime.
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