What will Miami-Dade be like in 10 - 20 years? (Fort Lauderdale, Aventura: minimum wage, living in)

[crisp444]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

Could it be that all "Southern" crowd doesn't have anything to do with the Old South? (By the way, CSA was allied with Spain and many took refuge in Spanish territory, Cuba).

Is it possible that all that crowd are ignorant and defeated people driven by Baptist zealots, with no relationship whatsoever with the Ol' South?

I know what you're saying. The stereotypical Southerner of 2009 is very different from the old-time Southern aristocracy of which you speak. There are some very well-traveled, educated, and refined people living in the South whose families have been in New Orleans, Memphis, Savannah, etc. for several generations. These people aren't likely to be chewing tobacco, attending NASCAR races, and flying large Confederate flags from huge trucks. That stuff has always been for the blue-collar working class, and in this country it seems that the greatest fear of immigrants, Spanish replacing English, Islam, etc. comes from people who are lower-middle class, working class, or poor.

[cuba libre]

Originally Posted by crisp444

The old-timers are all but gone from the area north of Calle Ocho in Little Havana. Their shops will remain there, as Calle Ocho is special to Cuban-Americans and tourists, but walk around after the stores close up shop for the night and you'll see that the old-timers have been replaced by new residents.

Most Cubans that I know laugh at Little Havana. They never go there for anything. In 5 or 10 years all of the old, senile, and mentally ill Cubans (the latter from Mariel specifically) will be gone and Central American and Mexican interests will run the show in Little Havana.

For true, up-to-date Cuban culture, see: Bird Road.

Originally Posted by crisp444

but walk around after the stores close up shop for the night and you'll see that the old-timers have been replaced by new residents.

Specifically, Central Americans. I am enthralled with the vagueness that you used to describe the ubiquitous nature of Little Havana's "new residents"...

[crisp444]

By "new residents" I meant recent mulatto Cubans and mestizo Central Americans. As you know, many of the old-timers are not happy with these demographic changes and have voted with their feet by moving to the southwest and west. Bird Road is absolutely the epicenter of the Cuban community in South Florida nowadays. Westchester, Olympia Heights, Westwood Lakes, western Coral Gables, etc.

[Leovigildo]

Crisp

Cuban middle class has been fleeing traditional "Sauesera" since the 60's.

Cubans first lived in small efficiencies and in "cucaracheros" (tenements) for transients in Little Savannah, than later became Little Havanna, around Flagler, in tenements in Miami Beach (one of the few places that offered employment).

When I first arrived in Miami, 1975, my Cuban family there was divided in three branches.

The "poor" lived in the NW, near Zaire (Now they live around Bird Road and out in the boondocks in the Redlands).

The rich ones, they one that contracted my father, lived and still live at Snapper Creek. They had a bank.

The "super rich" in Key Biscayne, in one of those houses with yacht moorings, etc, just besides they owned by Fernandez Miranda, a Batista minister. They bought the house before the revolution. They sold the house recently.

In 1975, no "respectable" Cuban lived in Calle Ocho and Sauesera, and the place was not bad at all. No crime, no Central Americans, no racial diversity whatsoever. The old people were Spanish, many with their berets on under the Florida sun.

Cubans started to move up calle ocho and towards Coral Way and Bird Road.

You're right, Calle Ocho is more of a Sanctuary, a Shrine, with the 2506 Brigade Monument, the Domino Park and a place where old Cubans live.

All that stuff about Central Americans, mulattoes or PR was non-existent. There were many Chinese Cubans, they had a very nice restaurant, El Oriental, just besides the Tower Cinema, another shrine.

Chinese Cubans were fun and very good people, their language was a barrage of Cantonese and Cuban.

There was an enclave in "Jewbans" around Collins, they occupied a few blocks of tenements and cheap houses. There was another enclave of Lebanese Cubans around Coral Way. Some Jewbans made it big, Movado.

[Loggerhead Shrike]

Cubans = "Spanish with berets under the sun?". "Little Havana is full of crime and racial diversity such as mulattoes and central american mestizos"? What a bunch of racist crock. Little Havana seems to have been glamorized by some cubans. I am sure the Anglos spoke as glowingly of the Cubans taking over Miami as the Cubans talk about other Latin Americans taking over parts of Miami. Little Havana is still full of Cubans, trashy for the most part (black and white). The Central Americans/Mexicans have increased in numbers and maybe add an indian look that Cuban whites and white wannabees (I work with a Cuban with obvious black features who insists he is of Galician descent - pathetic) find insulting but they speak better Spanish, don't screech like guinea hens when talking, and commit less crime than the Cubans (per police officers I have spoken to). Take out the loud Cubans (mulattos, recently arrived, tacky) and Little Havana will be better for it. West Kendall is full of Colombians and Peruvians and those areas are pretty safe. Stop glamorizing Cubans from the past, they took advantage of a U.S. system which was generous to them and then they want to say built Miami, which was a "swamp" before they got here.

[Leovigildo]

You're some sort of Latin American, right?
I understand you, your Cuban boss treats you like dirt.
Yes, they built Miami, and they are the reason you're here.

[Loggerhead Shrike]

No, I am not some "sort of Latin American". I am American. My father is from here, way before Cubans were here and my mom is from "some sort of Latin American country". My boss is from Argentina. I actually have Cubans under me and I don't treat them like dirt. I owe nothing to Cubans for being here.

[gymbuff]

Guys, don't get caught up in the "mestizo" white Cuban rhetoric. Little Havanah is a crazy place. If crimes are committed it is the nature of the element who lives there. I have a friend who lives in Little Havanah and every weekend we venture out to collect aluminum cans (yes we recycle for money). The amount of drinking, loudness, music, and general hanging out confounds me! It is not one people or another who is doing these things; it's everybody, Cuban, mestizo, young, old, etc.
And yes as a Cuban -American I know Cubans go off the deep end when talking about their heritage. They are everything else on the map except black as if black is some GOD-awful curse.Hwever, if you do some reading, you will see where our cultural make up is from. To say that we MUST have black in us just because there were slaves in Cuba is the same as saying that every Anglo in America MUSt be part black because slaves were brought to america. All of this smacks of the extremely racist "octoroon" theory that prevailed in the south until quite recently.

[Leovigildo]

Originally Posted by Loggerhead Shrike

No, I am not some "sort of Latin American". I am American. My father is from here, way before Cubans were here and my mom is from "some sort of Latin American country". My boss is from Argentina. I actually have Cubans under me and I don't treat them like dirt. I owe nothing to Cubans for being here.

---------

Sorry, I don't believe you.
I know, you don't care.
Way before Cubans were here?
Laughable.

[Loggerhead Shrike]

Gymbuff, I agree with what you said. I do think many in Miami are octoroons though
No shame in that though.