What will happen to Miami's economy when Cuba becomes an exotic cruise ship mecca? Will Miami be 'more on the map' ? (Kendall: middle-class, insurance)

[ray1945]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

Crisp

My family has been visiting Miami since the 40's. Way before this person writing here. Part of my family owns property at Byscaine and Coral Gables since 1950.

My gradfather was Dupont's representative in Spain before the Spanish Civil War, and he went to Cuba following Dupont's orders. He owned a house in Miami back in the 40's. My grandfather was Irene Dupont "liaison".

Miami was by all means a primitive place compared to Cuba, nothing was comparable to Cuba. Miami was Miami Beach, the Downtown, Flagler and the Hialeah Tracks and the higher authority was the sheriff (a fat and stupid character in a Mercury that prosecuted Cubans overstaying their visas by watching the people that put "salt" in their coffe) and a few crooked politicians that made a living out of ilegal gambling, whores and drugs. Blacks were not considered humans, they were barred from everyplace and there was a colored town in Overtown and in the Grove (they settled there to avoid being used as target practice).

For Cubans, Miami was only interesting for their shopping sprees. They used to buy everything since it was cheaper than Cuba.

For example, in the entire Southern Florida there was nothing comparable to the community in which Irene Dupont, Alcapone, etc, lived in Varadero, Cuba. There was nothing comparable to Havana Hotels, or as luxurious Havana neighboirhoods such as Biltmore, Country Club, Miramar, Vedado, etc.

Cubans were very well received when the refugees were "priistas", escaping from Batista. They had money. But of course, when hundreds of thousand of Cubans began arriving in 1959, everything changed since there were many that were pennyless.

As to Cubans, I mean early Cubans, treating Americans as a Pomeranian, I don't think so. Cubans that arrived in those times had very solid American relations (not southeners from Miami) and extremely solid American friends dating back generations.

Of course, Havana was a city and at that time Miami was a nice town, the conflict was served.

As to Cuba removing Florida and Bahamas from the tourist market, it could take a while, but I guess that young people will be a witness to it.

Let's put it this way, Cuba is a large island with mountains, history and things, once they get rid the Castros and their surplus population (I'd say 7 million they could send to Davie, Broward), the country will be magnificent.

You visited, I lived here. My husband has been in Miami since the mid 40s, I moved here in '51. Both of us remember a very different Miami from the one you describe. I suspect your memories of Havana, and Cuba in general, are just as flawed....

[The Floridian]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

Crisp

My family has been visiting Miami since the 40's. Way before this person writing here. Part of my family owns property at Byscaine and Coral Gables since 1950.

My gradfather was Dupont's representative in Spain before the Spanish Civil War, and he went to Cuba following Dupont's orders. He owned a house in Miami back in the 40's. My grandfather was Irene Dupont "liaison".

Miami was by all means a primitive place compared to Cuba, nothing was comparable to Cuba. Miami was Miami Beach, the Downtown, Flagler and the Hialeah Tracks and the higher authority was the sheriff (a fat and stupid character in a Mercury that prosecuted Cubans overstaying their visas by watching the people that put "salt" in their coffe) and a few crooked politicians that made a living out of ilegal gambling, whores and drugs. Blacks were not considered humans, they were barred from everyplace and there was a colored town in Overtown and in the Grove (they settled there to avoid being used as target practice).

For Cubans, Miami was only interesting for their shopping sprees. They used to buy everything since it was cheaper than Cuba.

For example, in the entire Southern Florida there was nothing comparable to the community in which Irene Dupont, Alcapone, etc, lived in Varadero, Cuba. There was nothing comparable to Havana Hotels, or as luxurious Havana neighboirhoods such as Biltmore, Country Club, Miramar, Vedado, etc.

Cubans were very well received when the refugees were "priistas", escaping from Batista. They had money. But of course, when hundreds of thousand of Cubans began arriving in 1959, everything changed since there were many that were pennyless.

As to Cubans, I mean early Cubans, treating Americans as a Pomeranian, I don't think so. Cubans that arrived in those times had very solid American relations (not southeners from Miami) and extremely solid American friends dating back generations.

Of course, Havana was a city and at that time Miami was a nice town, the conflict was served.

As to Cuba removing Florida and Bahamas from the tourist market, it could take a while, but I guess that young people will be a witness to it.

Let's put it this way, Cuba is a large island with mountains, history and things, once they get rid the Castros and their surplus population (I'd say 7 million they could send to Davie, Broward), the country will be magnificent.

Fascinating!!!! Bravo, bravo !!!!

[Leovigildo]

In Spain itself there are people who are from Normans or Irish, and the arabic moors we often see with black hair.

-----------

Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland were settled from Spain 6.000 years ago.
They sailed there in makeshift leather boats during the neolithic period. (Mitocondrial DNA studies).

Moors are not "Arabics". Moors are North Africans, berberiscs, originally pertaining to the white race but mixed (some) with African slaves.

Dark and black haired people are Mediterranean, living there since paleolithic times.

Arabs are white.

Muslims in Spain were driven out after a war that lasted 800 years, and the remaining converts (most were ethnically Spanish) were expelled in the XVIth Century and massacred. Jews were forced to convert and many were massacred.

Most blonde and fair haired people in Spain, Italy, France and Ireland are kelts (gauls, "Galicia"). An ancient culture, not a race, that comprised most of western Europe 2.500 years ago.

"Germanics" are recent invaders and not very predominant in Western Europe, except, of course, Germania (although there were many kelts and Alpines in Germania (From the Rhine to the Vistula). The tribes invaded Roman provinces in 4th Century.

Germanic invaders occupied Brittany (Roman province inhabited by Kelts invaded by Anglo Saxon barbarians), Hispania (Visigoths, Suevians and Vandals), France (Franks), Italy (Ostrogoths and Lombards).

Those barbarians were not numerous in comparison with Roman population, so English are not Anglo Saxon, French are no Francs, Italians are not Ostrogoths, Spanish are not Goths, etc.

Slavics were barbarians that arrived much later.

In Northern Italy there are more blondes because they are "Kelts" (Galia Cisalpina).

"Normans" were vikings that settled in Normandy, France, also in Scotland and parts of Spain (Seville) where they became mercenaries. (9th - 10th Century). Later, Normals from Normandy invaded England in the 12th century.

[Leovigildo]

Ray

Well, I don't think so.
I have family that have owned property and lived during periods in Miami since the 50's.
They still live there.
My grandfather was a common fixture in Miami during the 40's, he rented a room in one of those big hotels in the Downtown area, just besides the Courts, that later became a haven for winos,
Of course, they are bilingual and fairly well off.
As to the opinions about Cuba, I'm talking about opinions shared by Americans living there.

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

In Spain itself there are people who are from Normans or Irish, and the arabic moors we often see with black hair.

-----------

Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland were settled from Spain 6.000 years ago.
They sailed there in makeshift leather boats during the neolithic period. (Mitocondrial DNA studies).

Moors are not "Arabics". Moors are North Africans, berberiscs, originally pertaining to the white race but mixed (some) with African slaves.

Dark and black haired people are Mediterranean, living there since paleolithic times.

Arabs are white.

Muslims in Spain were driven out after a war that lasted 800 years, and the remaining converts (most were ethnically Spanish) were expelled in the XVIth Century and massacred. Jews were forced to convert and many were massacred.

Most blonde and fair haired people in Spain, Italy, France and Ireland are kelts (gauls, "Galicia"). An ancient culture, not a race, that comprised most of western Europe 2.500 years ago.

"Germanics" are recent invaders and not very predominant in Western Europe, except, of course, Germania (although there were many kelts and Alpines in Germania (From the Rhine to the Vistula). The tribes invaded Roman provinces in 4th Century.

Germanic invaders occupied Brittany (Roman province inhabited by Kelts invaded by Anglo Saxon barbarians), Hispania (Visigoths, Suevians and Vandals), France (Franks), Italy (Ostrogoths and Lombards).

Those barbarians were not numerous in comparison with Roman population, so English are not Anglo Saxon, French are no Francs, Italians are not Ostrogoths, Spanish are not Goths, etc.

Slavics were barbarians that arrived much later.

In Northern Italy there are more blondes because they are "Kelts" (Galia Cisalpina).

"Normans" were vikings that settled in Normandy, France, also in Scotland and parts of Spain (Seville) where they became mercenaries. (9th - 10th Century). Later, Normals from Normandy invaded England in the 12th century.

Umm small correction Arabs are NOT white. Arabs vary in color from as black as petrol out of the ground to white as driven snow. The people who were in spain were from all over the Muslim world from Africa to the mid east. Also, as to Berbers, again incorrect about them being white, some mixed in with greeks and romans (who ruled over the area) and some mixed in with arabs and africans hence the different colors and such, but to say they were original white and later mixed in with black or whatever else is historically non factual. There are theories were they came from though but I stress, they are THEORIES.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

Crisp

My family has been visiting Miami since the 40's. Way before this person writing here. Part of my family owns property at Byscaine and Coral Gables since 1950.

My gradfather was Dupont's representative in Spain before the Spanish Civil War, and he went to Cuba following Dupont's orders. He owned a house in Miami back in the 40's. My grandfather was Irene Dupont "liaison".

Miami was by all means a primitive place compared to Cuba, nothing was comparable to Cuba. Miami was Miami Beach, the Downtown, Flagler and the Hialeah Tracks and the higher authority was the sheriff (a fat and stupid character in a Mercury that prosecuted Cubans overstaying their visas by watching the people that put "salt" in their coffe) and a few crooked politicians that made a living out of ilegal gambling, whores and drugs. Blacks were not considered humans, they were barred from everyplace and there was a colored town in Overtown and in the Grove (they settled there to avoid being used as target practice).

For Cubans, Miami was only interesting for their shopping sprees. They used to buy everything since it was cheaper than Cuba.

For example, in the entire Southern Florida there was nothing comparable to the community in which Irene Dupont, Alcapone, etc, lived in Varadero, Cuba. There was nothing comparable to Havana Hotels, or as luxurious Havana neighboirhoods such as Biltmore, Country Club, Miramar, Vedado, etc.

Cubans were very well received when the refugees were "priistas", escaping from Batista. They had money. But of course, when hundreds of thousand of Cubans began arriving in 1959, everything changed since there were many that were pennyless.

million they could send to Davie, Broward), the country will be magnificent.

Man, How old are you ? Are you a history teacher? You should be a a tour guide of Cuba and Miami. By the way, I have always liked the Alcapone's house in Kawama, and of course, the marvelous Dupont's house near the International Hotel.

[Mcsmith0210]

He is a historian.

[ray1945]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

Ray

Well, I don't think so.
I have family that have owned property and lived during periods in Miami since the 50's.
They still live there.

As do I. Have you ever lived in Miami?

My grandfather was a common fixture in Miami during the 40's, he rented a room in one of those big hotels in the Downtown area, just besides the Courts, that later became a haven for winos,
Of course, they are bilingual and fairly well off.

My comments were about Miami from 1950 on.

Nice that the winos are bilingual and fairly well off...

As to the opinions about Cuba, I'm talking about opinions shared by Americans living there.

What? There are Americans living in Cuba??

[Leovigildo]

Yes, I lived in Miami.
Yes, they lived there and own property since the 50's.
No, they don't treat you like a Poodle in Miami, they treat you as a "Tourist", not like the rabid and uncouth mongrel that you are.
Yes, there were Americans in Cuba.

[Leovigildo]

Wild Style

Arabs belong to the Semitic branch of the 7 to 8 groups of people loosely called "Whites".

All people conquered by Islam during the 8th Century were called Arabs, and some call themselves Arabs, but they are not ethnic Arabs.

For example, Egipt, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc, etc, are not Arabs, but muslims.

Arabs live, since Classical times, in Jordania, Siria, Lebanon, Palestina and the Arabian Peninsula.

The 15.000 or so muslims that invaded Spain in 711 (a country with 7.000.000 inhabitants ruled by Visigoths) were berberiscs. I insist, white people, and Arabs from Siria and as far as Yemen.

There was no real invasion, there was a mass conversion to Islam (including even Gothic nobility) since at that time Islamic rule was far better that the Gothic Monarchy.

There were 30 Gothic kings from 415 to 711 and none of them died of natural cause.

No, not theories. Arabs (and also berberiscs from North Africa) (the oldest Christians, by the way) were part of the Helenistic and Roman Empire and were Roman Subjects. They were civilized and formed part of the Western Civilization (whites) when Germanics were doing it behind a bush.

They are now in a very low period, in a decadent semi-comatose period, but they were the ones that during their Golden Age preserved all Classical Civilization.