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you are dealing with emotionalism. I deal with reality and facts. I think that's where the confusion on your part is coming from.
Statements that include the words "I hope" are not facts, they're wishes(and closer to emotion that my post). Please go back to my post and see what I put in bold.
I really don't understand why you want to move to "a poorly planned" and corrupted city like Miami. Why don't you use your wisdom and knowledge and move to a better place? You know like "walk the talk"
Statements that include the words "I hope" are not facts, they're wishes(and closer to emotion that my post). Please go back to my post and see what I put in bold.
I really don't understand why you want to move to "a poorly planned" and corrupted city like Miami. Why don't you use your wisdom and knowledge and move to a better place? You know like "walk the talk"
In fairness to Wild Style, I've read a lot of his posts and he's actually been very proactive in suggesting ways to improve Miami and make it a better place to live. Therefore, I do believe that he cares about Miami as much as anyone else and isn't here just to bash (which I have been guilty of myself in the past).
Moderator cut: Off Topic Can you still answer the question though? Why do you wanna move here with all this corruption? I know you are smarter than playing the gender card to avoid answering a question.
Last edited by doggiebus; 07-13-2009 at 07:24 AM..
Your hypothesis which is based off of a rolling stone article :S which, if I am reading your statement correctly is that the big bad corporations/banksters are the boogie man and they alone got us were we are. If this is your stance then it is beyond the scope of reality. It points the finger at Bonnie and ignores Clyde. I studied economics, have a degree in the subject, studied the history of our "fair" nation and I am hear to tell you, corporations and banks could do NOTHING if not for politicians giving them free reign.
I agree with you, that is what my post said "Government Crooks in collusion with big business". Why do you think Obama got elected? Because even the right wing christians are too broke to be dogmatic about religion. McCain? The right wing christians hated McCain. He isn't a "born again" christian. Sometimes I think we Americans are just as bad with our politics and religion as the middle east is with theirs. At least we're one nation so we can all agree to disagree instead of blowing each other up.
The republican party has been screwing over the little guy for years now, esp. since Bush has been in office. On the other hand, I don't scapegoat him (bush) for anything, as that would be like blaming a retard working at a power plant for a nuclear meltdown. Anyone with half a brain knew it was bound to happen eventually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style
For instance, this last run up i.e. the speculative bubble was made possible via the abolishment of the glass steagall act by our friend Mr. Clinton. Again if your boogie man (the corporations/banksters) were so mighty and powerful they would not have needed the govt to do away with such regulations which in turn would give them the ability to do what they did.
True enough, the glass steagall act was the beginning of the end. Anyone with a half a brain knew it. If you read Prof. Shiller's book "Irrational Exuberance" you knew it. he was out there blowing the horn in 2001. What he didn't know, the bubble just didnt "happen" out of nowhere. It was created.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style
What the author of that article also fails to realize is every recession after the great depression was orchistrated by the fed to control inflation. Thats the difference between being a reporter with no economic background and being someone who does, you miss the true nature of the situation. Yes, we could abolish the fed, yes we could regulat the banks but without a well educated citzenary who would be willing to put aside their personal feelings in exchange for pushing the needs of the nation nothing will change.
This is where we diverge, let me digress here a little bit and revert back to your earlier point about having a degree in economics. I do not discount the fact that you are well educated and have a degree in economics, I also cannot discount the fact however, that I was in real estate for a few short years and saw the easy money these banks were offering. So yes, the whole real estate collapse partly occured by those in the industry taking advantage of what these big banks put on the table that is : CHEATER LOANS: esp in the form of NINA and SISA (No Income No Assets) and (Stated Income Stated Asset) loans. These were loans where the banks knew that people would lie and they purposefully lowered their underwriting guidelines because behind the scenes they had figured out how to turn junk into gold, Mortgage Backed Securities where they would slice and dice and turn what normally would be rated as trash into AA and AAA rated securities. They did it conciously, they allowed the industry to degenerate into a bunch of crooks all looking for the quick buck. They did this by allowing those at the very bottom to originate and make bad loans. How could they get away with this?
Because the real masterminds behind the scenes found a way to funnel all of that (trash) volume into one big cash pipeline, screw everyone over, run away with the profits, and leave us all (the general population) to BAIL out the companies with our tax payer dollars.
So, maybe the biggest joke of all is that those who scam and defraud the government may only really be stealing their own money back anyways.
I have first hand experience that what I'm saying is how the cookie crumbled. Take a look at the confession of an industry insider and then tell me that I am wrong:
Also, unless your in China where there is totalitarian control, this idealistic utopia of citizens pushing aside their personal feelings in exchange for the greater good sounds like communism to me.
This is a country of immigrants who are all looking after who? Thats right, looking after #1.
The only people who (and ironically I might add) halfway give a damn are the religious nut jobs who do so only because they are promised 34 virgins in heaven OR in the case of christians: eternal salvation through jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style
Miami is just a small microcosim which mimics the greater American psyche. You know, the one that cares about no one but themselves while the greater good of the society suffers. But then again that is how our society was set up. The forefathers of this country were huge propononets of indivudialsm as they all thought highly of our friend Adam Smith and his theories as laid out in the his book the wealth of nations.
So here you are contradicting yourself, where as previously you were idealistically preaching that citizens push the "self" aside for the greater good, now you are saying that our country is based on individualism. I agree with you though, Miami is just a microcosm. But the same thing that happened there also happened in Las Vegas, California, I would go as far as saying anywhere where people are allowed to be crooks and make money hand over fist people will lie, cheat and steal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style
As for Maddoff, again he was only made possiblie by things like repealing glass steagull as well as losening over sight as was the case for the last decade.
you are only partially correct. What about all the lawyers, accountants, big corporations, hedge fund managers, etc. etc. etc.?
I could go on and on listing parties who turned a blind eye. Licensed and bonded professionals with law degrees, high ranking members of society: people who thought to themselves deep in the recesses of their minds "Something here isn't right" but then they got that fat check in the mail and that somehow made them forget about all that fishy business nonsense. Who knows? Maybe the religious nutjobs are onto something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style
Articles like the one you quoted only serve one purpose and thats to keep people absolutly stupid as to what is going on and why. Take your eye off the govt and they are free to blame everyone else while changing things to suit THEIR purpses and not the purposes of the nation!
Well obviously you didnt read the entire article because Taibbi doesn't single out Bankers in his article, he goes on to mention how it is the role of big business colluding with government and all of the nepotism as well as cronyism that is to blame. I am not shifting the blame off of government one bit.
The problem is when a guy that was working for a private company last week gets a job as a regulator regulating the industry that the company he was just working for belongs to.
So yes, in that sense government is the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style
Again, I am not saying the N.E. does not have problems politically, I was born and raised there, i know how NYC was in the 70s - 90s. However, to deny the political sophistication of the people up there as opposed to here says to me that you are not very familiar with politics in both places.
I think to say people in the North East are more sophisticated politically is erroneous at best and down right racist at worst. I think the sophistication is equal, just different issues being discussed. I think everywhere you go you will find a pocket of elite and the rest consisting of normal citizenry who have strong opinions about things they have no first hand knowledge of.
I agree with you, that is what my post said "Government Crooks in collusion with big business". Why do you think Obama got elected? Because even the right wing christians are too broke to be dogmatic about religion. McCain? The right wing christians hated McCain. He isn't a "born again" christian. Sometimes I think we Americans are just as bad with our politics and religion as the middle east is with theirs. At least we're one nation so we can all agree to disagree instead of blowing each other up.
we are straying away from the topic here but that part in bold is incorrect. Just go look at Timothy Mcveigh and the host of other nut case groups.
Quote:
The republican party has been screwing over the little guy for years now, esp. since Bush has been in office. On the other hand, I don't scapegoat him (bush) for anything, as that would be like blaming a retard working at a power plant for a nuclear meltdown. Anyone with half a brain knew it was bound to happen eventually.
History shows us one thing. None of the political parties are innocent. The act I mentioned earlier was repelled under a democrat. They have all done things to undermine the american people.
Quote:
True enough, the glass steagall act was the beginning of the end. Anyone with a half a brain knew it. If you read Prof. Shiller's book "Irrational Exuberance" you knew it. he was out there blowing the horn in 2001. What he didn't know, the bubble just didnt "happen" out of nowhere. It was created.
not familier with that book
Quote:
This is where we diverge, let me digress here a little bit and revert back to your earlier point about having a degree in economics. I do not discount the fact that you are well educated and have a degree in economics, I also cannot discount the fact however, that I was in real estate for a few short years and saw the easy money these banks were offering. So yes, the whole real estate collapse partly occured by those in the industry taking advantage of what these big banks put on the table that is : CHEATER LOANS: esp in the form of NINA and SISA (No Income No Assets) and (Stated Income Stated Asset) loans. These were loans where the banks knew that people would lie and they purposefully lowered their underwriting guidelines because behind the scenes they had figured out how to turn junk into gold, Mortgage Backed Securities where they would slice and dice and turn what normally would be rated as trash into AA and AAA rated securities. They did it conciously, they allowed the industry to degenerate into a bunch of crooks all looking for the quick buck. They did this by allowing those at the very bottom to originate and make bad loans. How could they get away with this?
Not sure how this disproves anything I stated. All you did was show how the whole scheme works. However without easiing of regulations, wihout the government borrowing money from the east, none of whaty ou mentioned would have been possible so once again its the govt. A government that has been impowered by a uneducated citzenry.
Quote:
Because the real masterminds behind the scenes found a way to funnel all of that (trash) volume into one big cash pipeline, screw everyone over, run away with the profits, and leave us all (the general population) to BAIL out the companies with our tax payer dollars.
Thats what happens when you have voters who do not understand the issues.
Quote:
So, maybe the biggest joke of all is that those who scam and defraud the government may only really be stealing their own money back anyways.
in one breath you meantion scamming and defrauding the govt and in the next you acknowledge that the govt is in colusion and a "mafia" so its either they are in on it or they are not. from history we can see they are well in on it.
Quote:
I have first hand experience that what I'm saying is how the cookie crumbled. Take a look at the confession of an industry insider and then tell me that I am wrong:
you showed the scam you did not show the individuals and their actions which made the scam possible.
Quote:
Also, unless your in China where there is totalitarian control, this idealistic utopia of citizens pushing aside their personal feelings in exchange for the greater good sounds like communism to me.
Do you know what communism means? what you stated "totalitarian control" which is by the state and then "citzens pushing asid etheir personal feelings" have nothing to do with each other under communism. In communism the state has all the say so and makes the decisions. In my statment you have citizens who take control of their government through education and acting for the greater good of the society.
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This is a country of immigrants who are all looking after who? Thats right, looking after #1.
So is canada yet you don't see the same issues we have. Has little to do with being a nation of immigrants and everything to do with the way our country has been set up. (read the wealth of nations by Adam Smith)
Quote:
The only people who (and ironically I might add) halfway give a damn are the religious nut jobs who do so only because they are promised 34 virgins in heaven OR in the case of christians: eternal salvation through jesus.
You also have people who are a part of the green movement who care about the greater good of society and many otehr such group sof people. You disdain for religion and what you think is communism has nothing to do with this.
Quote:
So here you are contradicting yourself, where as previously you were idealistically preaching that citizens push the "self" aside for the greater good, now you are saying that our country is based on individualism. I agree with you though, Miami is just a microcosm. But the same thing that happened there also happened in Las Vegas, California, I would go as far as saying anywhere where people are allowed to be crooks and make money hand over fist people will lie, cheat and steal.
Do you know what the meaning of contradicition is? saying something is one way but then stating it should conduct itself in another way is not a contradiction sir. That is like saying my BMW M3 gets 250 HP yet I want to add a inter cooler so I can get 300 hp is a contradiction. My point is, I am explaining how to better our society given the parameters in which our society presently operates under.
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you are only partially correct. What about all the lawyers, accountants, big corporations, huge fund managers, etc. etc. etc.?
agian, none of whom would not be able to do ANYTHING if it were not for the govt allowing certain things to transpire. This is the chicken or the egg argument.
[quote]I could go on and on listing parties who turned a blind eye. Licensed and bonded professionals with law degrees, high ranking members of society: people who thought to themselves deep in the recesses of their minds "Something here isn't right" but then they got that fat check in the mail and that somehow made them forget about all that fishy business nonsense. Who knows? Maybe the religious nutjobs are onto something./QUOTE]You are describing people who took the line share of food at banquet yet ignorning those who actually created, organized and hosted the banquet.
Quote:
Well obviously you didnt read the entire article because Taibbi doesn't single out Bankers in his article, he goes on to mention how it is the role of big business colluding with government and all of the nepotism as well as cronyism that is to blame. I am not shifting the blame off of government one bit.
I see
Quote:
The problem is when a guy that was working for a private company last week gets a job as a regulator regulating the industry that the company he was just working for belongs to.
So yes, in that sense government is the problem.
and now we get to it, sort of. The govt has been allowed to do it because the people in charge of putting those in power in place have not kept up their due delegence. Again goes back to the who individualistic and self nature of our society.
Quote:
I think to say people in the North East are more sophisticated politically is erroneous at best and down right racist at worse. I think the sophistication is equal, there are just different issues being discussed. I think everywhere you go you will find a pocket of elite and the rest consisting of normal citizenry who have strong opinions about things they have no first hand knowledge of.
do you know what the term racist means? those in the south are not a race. I live here, I know the people and their mentality very well. I was born and raised in the north east and know what has gone on up there very well. To compare the two groups of people in terms of political accumine is to ignore facts both historical and present day.
Statements that include the words "I hope" are not facts, they're wishes(and closer to emotion that my post). Please go back to my post and see what I put in bold.
I really don't understand why you want to move to "a poorly planned" and corrupted city like Miami. Why don't you use your wisdom and knowledge and move to a better place? You know like "walk the talk"
I have stated many times before what I think about Miami which Bcreass has pointed out
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