Is Miami a Southern city? (moving, oil, rich)

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by back2dc

Because Texans, and in particular Texans in politics, are known for having very, very, very conservative agendas. Agendas that mesh nicely with a "traditional" Texan and Southern white, Baptist heritage.

Miami is very flashy, very glamorous, and very wealthy. The Cubans and other Latinos who moved from Argentina and South America are extremely worldly and quite well-off.

Miami is very Catholic, not just in the Latino population, but in the Black Haitian population, plus the transplanted Irish and Italian New Yorkers who retired there. It's also quite Jewish.

Miami is also very much on the global map when Europeans want to go to America to let loose. Where does your average German 30-something looking for some cool nightclubs, fantastic shopping and sunbathing go when he or she comes to America -- Houston or Miami?

Houston is very catholic outside of the Latino population as well and it is also a shopping destination for rich Latinos (Believe it or not).

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by Blkspice23

No sir !!!!

Yes sir!

Anything west of 35 is questionable as far as being southern.

[back2dc]

Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA

So you think no native Floridians settled in Miami after it's founding. No blacks from GA and northern FL were brought down for labor. hmm....

Well blacks moved up to Detroit, Chicago and New York during the great Migration. Are those cities now Southern?

Miami's population and much of Florida's population was so small prior to WW2 that no cultural claim can really be made until the 1950s and onward.

Why does it matter if it's Southern to you? I'm not trying to prove Miami is "Northern" because that would be ridiculous based on it's tropical climate.

Southernness is less a geographical attribute than it is sociological one -- based on race, religion and politics. Miami, once a citrus grove, not a cotton plantation, at the gateway to Latin America and settled by wealthy Jewish and Catholic northerners, as well as Latinos, in the past 6 decades, is not a Southern city by any stretch of the imagination.

[back2dc]

Originally Posted by jluke65780

Houston is very catholic outside of the Latino population as well and it is also a shopping destination for rich Latinos (Believe it or not).

I believe that Houston is quite diverse. Statistics don't lie. But the diversity is quite spread out and not in traditional, dense, walkable neighborhoods like up North. I appreciate Houston's characteristics much more so than say Dallas'. I also like the fact that it's close to the Gulf of Mexico giving it a natural boundary around which it has developed. Major plus on that.

But the traditional "elite" of Houston right down to its working poor has always had a very conservative, outwardly religious and quite Southern (with a Texas twang) culture. It still permeates throughout the city, although it's much more diluted than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Miami has none of that traditional, good ol' boy Southern network that you see in Houston. It is the Cubans, the Jews and the cosmopolitan white gays who run metro Miami.

[WestbankNOLA]

Originally Posted by back2dc

Well blacks moved up to Detroit, Chicago and New York during the great Migration. Are those cities now Northern?

Miami's population and much of Florida's population was so small prior to WW2 that no cultural claim can really be made until the 1950s and onward.

Why does it matter if it's Southern to you? I'm not trying to prove Miami is "Northern" because that would be ridiculous based on it's tropical climate.

Southernness is less a geographical attribute than it is sociological one -- based on race, religion and politics. Miami, once a citrus grove, not a cotton plantation, at the gateway to Latin America and settled by wealthy Jewish and Catholic northerners, as well as Latinos, in the past 6 decades, is not a Southern city by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah, but blacks up north assimilated while black and white southerners established the default culture there, which is still very strong in Miami just not dominant. Eventually the "Saws" (caribbeans) and then the latinos came.

Tell all of the blacks in Miami that they aren't southern, oh wait I guess they don't count.

Oh, and you made the comment about Catholics. Most of the whites and blacks whites in South Louisiana are Catholic. Southeast Texas also has a large number of Catholic blacks.

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by back2dc

I believe that Houston is quite diverse. Statistics don't lie. But the diversity is quite spread out and not in traditional, dense, walkable neighborhoods like up North. I appreciate Houston's characteristics much more so than say Dallas'. I also like the fact that it's close to the Gulf of Mexico giving it a natural boundary around which it has developed. Major plus on that.

But the traditional "elite" of Houston right down to its working poor has always had a very conservative, outwardly religious and quite Southern (with a Texas twang) culture. It still permeates throughout the city, although it's much more diluted than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Miami has none of that traditional, good ol' boy Southern network that you see in Houston. It is the Cubans, the Jews and the cosmopolitan white gays who run metro Miami.

Neither is Miami though so.......

[back2dc]

Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA

Yeah, but blacks up north assimilated while black and white southerners established the default culture there, which is still very strong in Miami just not dominant. Eventually the "Saws" (caribbeans) and then the latinos came.

Tell all of the blacks in Miami that they aren't southern, oh wait I guess they don't count.

Aren't most of the blacks in Miami from the islands? Jamaicans, Haitians in particular? And of the few African Americans in Miami they must be such a small percentage of the total population that they would hardly constitute an overwhelming Southern mindset that permeates the whole city.

Southern is a state of mind. As my status says: Southern is a Euphemism for Conservative. Miami is NOT conservative.

[back2dc]

Originally Posted by jluke65780

Neither is Miami though so.......

Miami is MUCH denser than Houston, come on. Come on man, don't cherry pick from my argument and ignore all the blatant statistics that I presented you.

[WestbankNOLA]

Originally Posted by back2dc

Aren't most of the blacks in Miami from the islands? Jamaicans, Haitians in particular? And of the few African Americans in Miami they must be such a small percentage of the total population that they would hardly constitute an overwhelming Southern mindset that permeates the whole city.

Southern is a state of mind. As my status says: Southern is a Euphemism for Conservative. Miami is NOT conservative.

See here's the problem. Everybody wants southerness to be this one mindset or culture wiith no variation, yet few will argue that D.C., BMore, Phillly, NYC, or Boston aren't Northeastern or Northern while they clearly aren't just alike.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by jluke65780

Neither is Miami though so.......

Seriously? Miami is the city that has any density in the south