[magellan]

Originally Posted by tecpatl

I don't know a single waiter or bartender who makes the minimum wage. They DO make a low hourly wage, which is augmented by gratuities, often 20 to 50 bucks an hour in good restaurants, and sometimes even more. This is the nature of that business, that industry. Anyone who doesn't like that is more than welcome to go get a high-paying, benefits-galore union job building automobiles for GM.

Is there something wrong with a job that you can walk into without a degree and specialized training, work 6 hours and leave with 100 to 300 dollars? Might not be cradle to grave benefits and pensions, but who in this state would turn that down if they were looking for work?

How many jobs have YOU created, scolls? How much do those jobs, if any at all, pay? And if you haven't created any (my bet) or many, why haven't you created more?
P.S. All service industries require owners and managers, most of whom have good business skills and get good wages and bennies.

The average restaurant server makes about $15,000 - $20,000/year, tops. That's considered poverty wages.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by magellan

The average restaurant server makes about $15,000 - $20,000/year, tops. That's considered poverty wages.

And if you think they report all the tips , think again. A good aggressive wait staff person , in a nice restaurant , can do quite well. It helps to have good bus staff also.

[Drover]

Well I can say this, in all the time I've spent in the touristy part of the Northwoods (mostly Wisconsin, but occasionally in the UP as well), I don't think I ever saw a member of the waitstaff and thought to myself, "wow, they must be doing really well for themselves." Some of the owners were of course doing fine, but I can't say I ever envied my waitress.

[tecpatl]

Originally Posted by Drover

Well I can say this, in all the time I've spent in the touristy part of the Northwoods (mostly Wisconsin, but occasionally in the UP as well), I don't think I ever saw a member of the waitstaff and thought to myself, "wow, they must be doing really well for themselves." Some of the owners were of course doing fine, but I can't say I ever envied my waitress.

Well, I can understand that if they were waiting on you....
Just kidding.....
As was said earlier, if you think the average waiter makes 15 to 20 k a year, you also believe that the people you know who clean houses or do massage declare and pay taxes on all their wages.
Will you get rich waiting on tables? Gee, I doubt it....but many people who ARE rich did those jobs on the way to something else. Call it "making a living" and not sucking on the public teat. It's work, it's honorable and decently paid work, with lots of voluntary flexibility in hours, etc. that suits many people to the degree that they continue those jobs for many years.
The notion that this is menial or poorly paid work is nonsense.
I wish the working people of Michigan were in such a position as to be able to turn up their noses at jobs without retirement plans and benefits. Maybe there were people who could do that...but where are they now?
The days of just getting by in high school and then settling into a 30 year career on the line at GM or Ford or Chrysler are GONE..and aren't coming back, ever. No matter how much people whine and cry about it.
People who have enough guts and brains to work hard for a good education and compete for a good job, or exercise their entrepreneurial right to work for themselves (thus working for the toughest, most unreasonable and tight-fisted boss EVER) deserve everything they get. So do the people who do less, accomplish less, settle for less, blame everyone but themselves, and sit and whine...they get what they deserve. I think that's a shame, but that's the real world.

[tecpatl]

Originally Posted by magellan

The average restaurant server makes about $15,000 - $20,000/year, tops. That's considered poverty wages.

The "average restaurant server" works where?
If 20k "tops" was the best case scenario (80 dollars a day/5 days a week) I think there'd be a lot of self-serve restaurants in the mighty Michigan mitten.
That might be true if you work for McDonalds...but anyone who approaches the job as a responsible job or a profession normally does far better than that, and usually less than a 40 hour week.
Like any job that requires individual effort and skill, there are some who do poorly, some that do reasonably well, and those who do very well.
Averages mean little if you're talking about what a particular person should make for a particular job in this case. There's a huge margin for human error or other, lesser qualities.

[Remisc]

Originally Posted by magellan

The average restaurant server makes about $15,000 - $20,000/year, tops. That's considered poverty wages.

Not true. My daughter used to work at Sindbad's, and she made more than that.

[darstar]

My wife pulled down 300-500 a night working as a cocktail waitress./server..and that was 30 years ago. She did have to wear a sexy costume, but it was worth it. I am sure they make more than that today. ( in the City/burbs )

[actinic]

You can hear the collective groan of tourist officials with the weather taking a turn this weekend.

[skyl4rk]

What is a tourist official?

[LINative]

Originally Posted by edsg25

Travel and vacation was once relatively local. In a new economy where long distance family trips become too expensive as jet fuel takes its toll, perhaps Michigan, a state with definitive economic woes, needs to repackage itself in an area of strength that puts it in the upper tier of states:

beautiful places to visit.

Two regions, side by side, with much in common....the Midwest West (Great Lakes) and the northeast. They're older and more prominent; we evolved out of them and are underrated as a place to go.

Michigan packages itself well with midwesterners, but my sense is that it doesn't do as good of a job on the east coast. Why not? Reaching the Michigan shores from places like Boston, NY, and Philly is not that difficult...a day and half drive at best.

And there is nothing like the Great Laskes and its fresh water beaches and endless waters of the Great Lakes. Harbor Country or Mackinac offer pleasures that are different, but on par with Cape Cod.

Michigan sure seems to be missing an opportunity to me.

I understand what you are saying, but here the problem from my POV:

SOUTHERN ROUTE --- in order to get to Michigan we would have to drive into and out the entire state of Pennsylvania, which itself has a ton of things to do for the vacationer. We then have to travel through the entire length of Ohio, just to get to SE Michigan.

NORTHERN ROUTE --- in order to get to Michigan we would have to drive through Upstate New York, which again is a major tourist area. Then we would do a shortcut across Southern Ontario to SE Michigan.

Both routes are long and bypass major NE tourist areas in order to deposit us into.....Southeast Michigan and the general Detroit area! After all this traveling, we then have to start like someone coming from the Detroit metro area to get to Lake Michigan or the UP.

Don't get me wrong, for instance I am a history buff and I would love to see the forts and hotel around Mackinac. But it is a very long drive, so that it is just easier to go Upstate, Vermont, or even Virginia etc.