[Remisc]

Originally Posted by scolls

The New York mayor wants to eliminate soda from food stamps to decrease obesity, but this is a Midwestern thing

That's not going to do ANYTHING. Unless Mr. Bloomberg wants to eliminate everything made by Hostess and Little Debbie from food stamps, too...

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by Bydand

LOL, first place I ever heard that (and then many, many times after) was in the Northeast. That is a very common excuse everywhere, not just the Midwest and South.

No need to be defensive.You're welcome to look at a map of where obesity rates are highest. The South is the worst, generally Midwestern states follow. The mountain west and Pacific NW are the lowest rates.

That doesn't mean there isn't obesity in New York or LA, but it tends to be more linked to socioeconomics and a smaller percentage of the overall population.

[idw2s]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

As someone who's spent a lot of time in the heartland, the east coast, and Europe, I find this "disease causes obesity" argument something I only hear in the South and Midwest. Obviously there are circumstances where that's true, but I don't think we should justify skyrocketing obesity rates over the past 20 years as some disease that happens to be ravaging places where diets are notoriously unhealthy, exercise is sparse, and auto dependence is an epidemic. There's just too many environmental factors to toss it off as a disease beyond the bounds of personal responsibility for the majority (NOT ALL).

It is definitely linked in part to poverty, as the only large groups on the east coast who tend to be obese are the poor, but there are plenty of tourists from middle America with money to burn who completely stand out on the subways and sidewalks in the eastern US and European cities because of their weight.

That's not disease or poverty. That's just unhealthy lifestyle choices ranging from choosing to eat industrial processed food when they could easily afford fresh food or depend on a car without compensating through exercise.

Well, interestingly autism, cancer, cardiovascular diseases, inflammatory diseases, autoimmune diseases all skyrocketed over the same time period.

There are others I can't quote off the top of my head, but we've gotten much sicker over the last 20 years.... Why would fat disorders be any different than other diseases, particularly since all of the above, including fat disorders, are inflammatory in nature, whether that is the name they go by or not?

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

No need to be defensive.

I wasn't defensive, you said "I find this "disease causes obesity" argument something I only hear in the South and Midwest." to which I replied with my own personal experience, to give a balanced view.

[WheredoIlive?]

Originally Posted by idw2s

Well, interestingly autism, cancer, cardiovascular diseases, inflammatory diseases, autoimmune diseases all skyrocketed over the same time period.

There are others I can't quote off the top of my head, but we've gotten much sicker over the last 20 years.... Why would fat disorders be any different than other diseases, particularly since all of the above, including fat disorders, are inflammatory in nature, whether that is the name they go by or not?

+1,000,000

Richer people get better food, and the processed stuff is lower in nutritients.

I know its easier for the elite to just play blame the victim rather then look at the overall bigger picture.

[dori36]

Originally Posted by WheredoIlive?

+1,000,000

Richer people get better food, and the processed stuff is lower in nutritients.

I know its easier for the elite to just play blame the victim rather then look at the overall bigger picture.

I'd also add that in the areas where the obesity rate is the lowest, mountain west and pacific northwest, making time to get outside to hike, climb, walk, fish, camp/pack in, etc., etc, is an important part of the culture. I've lived in the Tetons, Big Horns, Beartooths and more and it's not just 'something to do if you can work it in', but it's the way people plan their lives. They plan around being outside and being active, not around their work schedules. I've never seen a weekend exodus like I have seen in Denver where, on the weekends, 'everyone' heads to the mountains. Bumper to bumper on I70 heading west! It's truly part of the ingrained culture of those areas.

I have to believe that our more urban, indoor, sedentary lifestyles (including working one's "butt" off doing their career work at a desk) have contributed greatly to all the maladies noted throughout the thread.

[idw2s]

Originally Posted by dori36

I'd also add that in the areas where the obesity rate is the lowest, mountain west and pacific northwest, making time to get outside to hike, climb, walk, fish, camp/pack in, etc., etc, is an important part of the culture. I've lived in the Tetons, Big Horns, Beartooths and more and it's not just 'something to do if you can work it in', but it's the way people plan their lives. They plan around being outside and being active, not around their work schedules. I've never seen a weekend exodus like I have seen in Denver where, on the weekends, 'everyone' heads to the mountains. Bumper to bumper on I70 heading west! It's truly part of the ingrained culture of those areas.

I have to believe that our more urban, indoor, sedentary lifestyles (including working one's "butt" off doing their career work at a desk) have contributed greatly to all the maladies noted throughout the thread.

Which brings it's own complications. People who work predominately indoors have chronically low Vitamin D levels. Vitamin D is linked to higher cancer, sleep disorders, chronic fatigue, depression, inflammation, obesity, and a host of other issues.

Then there's the stress of desk work, the increased cortisol, the hurry scurry back to the desk to continue working, so you shovel food in quickly with nary a thought (and usually it's not terribly healthy)...

[WheredoIlive?]

Originally Posted by dori36

I'd also add that in the areas where the obesity rate is the lowest, mountain west and pacific northwest, making time to get outside to hike, climb, walk, fish, camp/pack in, etc., etc, is an important part of the culture. I've lived in the Tetons, Big Horns, Beartooths and more and it's not just 'something to do if you can work it in', but it's the way people plan their lives. They plan around being outside and being active, not around their work schedules. I've never seen a weekend exodus like I have seen in Denver where, on the weekends, 'everyone' heads to the mountains. Bumper to bumper on I70 heading west! It's truly part of the ingrained culture of those areas.

I have to believe that our more urban, indoor, sedentary lifestyles (including working one's "butt" off doing their career work at a desk) have contributed greatly to all the maladies noted throughout the thread.

People need money to go on hiking exercursions. Obesity goes with poverty in America. There is no doubt of that in my mind, and it comes from the higher stress, bad food, and lack of activities. Activities cost money, I would be a on trip now if I wasnt broke, and poor people get stuck at home as they have no fancy SUV to take them hundreds of miles into the moutains, buying 100s of dollars of camping gear. People who are richer do not get it.

I believe people need to leave city and suburban life behind and go back to small towns and farms, and live more normal lives. Without closer social ties, more exercise, the modern life sucks. And when you are poor, there is far less activitiy. I wish I had some land, to grow things on. Sticking people in apts, with no gardens, away from all social ties, this is what you get.

Here is the deal: middle class and above people can take care of themselves in this society, they can afford the gym, higher quality food, more sports and actitivites, the salon, better medical care. Poorer people cannot. You look around your small apt, realize everyone you know, is hundreds of miles away; you talk to them on Facebook and never see anyone in real life, and you are too broke to go to the salon. Even if you spend hours cooking wholesome food, like squash, and bean soup from scratch, the lack of money is limiting. You can take a couple walks alone, for exercise, but it is not the same as having ana ctive and involved life. When you have no money you are cut off in this society, the isolation is great, especially if you are poor and have no community of those in your circumstances around you. You cannot afford gym memberships: I remember struggling with that.

[WheredoIlive?]

Oh add in safety, how many women want to walk around alone, considering the crime rates, many people feel like they are taking their life in their hand going outside alone. This is one reason the kids arent outside, and not riding their bicycles around and exercising in the park.

[dori36]

Originally Posted by WheredoIlive?

Oh add in safety, how many women want to walk around alone, considering the crime rates, many people feel like they are taking their life in their hand going outside alone. This is one reason the kids arent outside, and not riding their bicycles around and exercising in the park.

You make some good points in both of your posts. My point was that if our (Americans, in general) mindset would get "adjusted", getting outdoors would be normal daily routine, not an "excursion". Walking is the cheapest form of exercise available. Put on shoes and go out the door. Not everyone in scenic areas are wealthy. I still get outside in northern MI where I am now. Sometime it's in town, Alpena, where the city has a walking/cycling/running path that encircles the town. Lots and lots of people use it to their benefit and it's free. Sometime it's in the forest that is close to where I live. If I'm bored with the same scenery, I drive a few miles for a new look and hike in any of the several state/national forests/parks that are also close to me.

I agree that if one lives in a ghetto, it can be scary to "get outside". Maybe as a society we need to do what some of the formerly larger cities (like Flint), as well as Detroit, are doing: razing abandoned buildings and turning the land into urban farming plots. Planting, tending and harvesting crops is also excellent outdoor exercise.