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Old 04-06-2008, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyphonicSpr33 View Post
Don't blame whites, blame Columbians.
I gotta say, where do I start? You're comments offend me to a decent degree, being that part of my family is Colombian. Sure you make that comment in jest, and I don't take it personally, but I feel your attitude is part of the problem with Michigan.Going to the ministry yet mention you hate aspects of how people dress. How can a good God following person hate anything, let alone give someone enough power to actually feel hate? What have they done to you? Get out of Michigan and visit a city such as New York or Chicago even. That is just how people dress, and believe it or not some folks make millions of dollars dressing in baggy designer clothes, and would not hate someone back for how they dressed. Who knows, they might even be smarter, or more educated then you or I, but be in the business of entertainment and speak with ebonics to make money off of it ( as a persona)Who knows.Rap is entertainment for the money, just as evil heavy metal, and John Mayor.
I would much rather talk to someone that is in baggy clothes, looks like crap perhaps, and is an interesting, intelligent, caring person, rather then a dressed up, neat looking supposed Christian that's a judgemental jerk. Is white flight right? Who knows. We all have a fight or flight response to certain things, and everyone has their own breaking points. Rather then blaming Michigan black America for everything, I'd say the thinking of white Michigan residents is in a lot of cases 30-40 years behind the rest of the states, and it shows in these forums. People are not on earth to please you, me, or anyone else on this planet. They are just there, some a little more respectful of the rules we have, some not. Be cognizant of that before you judge based on appearance.
Not all Colombians do coke. Do all youth ministry students molest 12 year olds? I wouldn't presume so.

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Old 04-06-2008, 12:53 AM
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If people deviate from the social norms -- they should expect to be judged accordingly. People praise being nonjudgemental as if it's something to be aspired to -- it's not when there are objective reasons behind it. Otherwise, it's a race to the bottom in terms of immorality and I'm glad other states are "ahead" of Michigan in this regard.

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Old 04-06-2008, 01:26 AM
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What objective reasons do you mean exactly? Being judgemental is the way to go, you are saying?
I dress nice, have a very well paying job, and have friends that for the most part would probably be considered social norms, or dare I say above the norm. So what.
I have friends that would be considered perhaps below the social norm, since they are into art, acting, dress a little different, etc..... so what. They are all good people, who am I to judge. I wouldn't know if they were good if I had judged them to begin with without even knowing them.

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Old 04-06-2008, 03:05 AM
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One Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by deslok View Post
What objective reasons do you mean exactly?
If 10 out of 100 lions attack humans while 2 out of 100 tigers attack humans, would you consider it reasonable, based on objective criteria, to consider lions more dangerous than tigers?

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Old 04-06-2008, 10:31 AM
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It doesnt matter if its right or wrong, it just IS. People of all races *flight* when the area they are living in starts to go down hill. I dont blame the people for leaving, I blame the people who come in and are satisfied with trashing a once clean safe place. If new people moved in and had pride and self-worth in themselves and their home and surrounding, there wouldnt be a problem. I dont what race you are, dont move into my neighborhood and trash it all to hell

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Old 04-06-2008, 10:56 AM
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My perspective is a little different and I have seen it both ways. I am white and grew up as teenager in the 70's in a predominatly black town with a black stepfather in an all black neighborhood, attended a high school that was 80% black in the South. The two black neighborhoods I lived in were middle class black families whose parents were, postal workers, teachers, govt. workers, military, etc. I had to walk about 1 mile each day to the Junior High school, through a low income black neighborhood. (some said it was dangerous). The first few days I walked on my own with no reservations, (we moved from Germany on a military base, so ignorance was bliss as far as my awareness of what I was doing). After befriending the neighborhood kids, the ones that were going to the same school told me to wait for them and they would walk with me everyday to school......they knew, like I said, ignorance was bliss. My first concert was Parliment Funkadelic and Bootsy Collins after that. So I have been influenced by my friends taste in music and I have turned on my kids to the old school funk. I am 46 now and to this day I can go back to those neighborhoods and visit the parents of my friends and they welcome me with open arms and talk about old times. I guess to get to the point, Mr. 248, I don't know Southfield but I imagine the neighborhood I grew up in is similiar. I never, ever had a problem because I was white, in fact it was the neigborhood next to ours (all black also, Moses Malones neighborhood) that was the issue with our neighborhood, the hoodlums came over and usually caused problems, even large scale fights erupted at times. In fact I was told to go home when the fights did happen because my black friends knew I would get the brunt of it due to me sticking out like a sore thumb. My first wife was black and we caught more crap from black men then anyone else, all verbal nothing physical. So, all being said I have a little different perspective about all this and it has affected me in some ways. (by the way I am thinking of moving to Michigan, if job interview goes well). For instance to keep my options open I am looking at real estate down here in Virginia, I really like this rehabbed condo, but it sits in about a 4 block radius of low income African American folks, now I have gone through there at night, checked it out and I am still hestitant about buying it, because folks hanging on the corner late at night and them staring at me as I drive around the corner. To get back to 248, if the area was middle class black, I would have no problem buying it, and I would not call it the ghetto or ever refer it to that, simliar if it was hoodish white folks living there I would think the same about not buying and living there. Conclusion based on my experience it's......socio economic. Folks with careers and commons sense, some sort of self worth, folks who want a better life for there children, etc. can live together in harmony, I'll turn you on to some Rolling Stones and you can turn me on to a little Tupac. So Mr 248 I am sorry that you feel your upstanding neighborhood is being labeled and "lumped" in with being a ghetto because of the color of the neighborhood. Just wondering about Oprah, Colin Powell, Condaleeza Rice, Justice Thomas, Denzel, Micheal Jordan, Tiger Woods, Barack Obama, Sean Combs, Spike Lee, Jesse Jackson if they all lived in the same neighborhood, what would the perception be of that neighborhood. Socio economic. I miss the old neighborhood, I wasn't white, and they weren't black, we were the neighborhood kids, being raised by parents who kicked us in our butts if we didn't bring home the good grades, as Jamie Foxx stated, his grandmother told him......act like you got some sense boy, you got a brain use it.
I am a black female in Westland, MI. My daughters father was Italian (passed away) and you are so correct. I caught more flack from black men then anyone else, actually I was surprised seeing that black men have no reservations dating or marrying caucasian women. I to believe it depends on the socio economic status of the people in the neighborhood. Oh, we have a lot in common Bootsie Collins was my first concert as well and I am 44 years young If you move to Michigan beware there is seperatism that is very prevalent. I also believe Michigan will never prosper until this issue is addressed and put to rest. If you want diversity, unfortunately you will not find it here. Few and far between.

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Old 04-06-2008, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mrkool View Post
Anyone with half a brain is going to put the best interests of themselves and their family (especially children) first. Things such as personal safety and good schools are of paramount importance. Largely black areas tend to have high crime rates, bad schools, and alot of bad behavior in general (i.e. very high illegitimacy rates). These are statistically provable facts, as well as readily observable. It's not an opinion, and it's not hate. It's just the way things are. Show me any formerly white neighborhood that is now mostly black, and does not have many more social problems now than when it was white.

If whites were the ones committing 80% of violent crime, having 70% of babies out of wedlock, and performing terribly in the schools and dragging them down, would blacks want to live among so many negative social indicators? Of course not. You all would be "black flighting" as quick as you could. It's called self-preservation. And that's precisely what whites are doing. Things aren't going to change until black behavior (as a group, not individually) get alot better than it is.
And yeah, I'm "hiding" behind a screen name, but most whites don't say these things in the open out of politeness. As a rule I say what I think to almost anyone, anywhere. Want my real name and city? If that would make you feel better, come on and PM me...

Ignorance is bliss

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Old 04-06-2008, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. 248 View Post
Looks like most of you are missing the mark here. I did not say speak of Detroit at all...never mentioned anything about an impoverished area. I said, Southfield, so
1. those who know nothing about Detroit, and only come here to visit family - your not really an authority on the topic
2. Mr. Kool, explain where Southfield does not meet any of those standards you mentioned
3. The median house income of Southfield is well above minimum wage, so food stamps or not, Southfield is far from poor.

We live in a society that has many double standards - true. Blacks feel comfortable around blacks, whites feel comfortable around whites - but when it gets to the point that even the GOOD predominantly black areas get stereotyped as "ghetto" - what does that say about those who feel that way? Detroit is one of the most segregated cities in the U.S. so whether all of you know it or not, your mindstate has progressively gotten more racially disparate than the average American. Since statistics don't lie, basically the majority of whites in Michigan carry an overwhelmingly separatist attitude toward living conditions. Without taking this conversation too far and opening up too many societal wounds that have yet to heal in our city, all I'm saying is that Southfield is a victim of racial profiling - it is obvious by everyone's own words - I'm not some overly racial angry black man, I'm simply a researcher and all of you are my primary resources. Just face it people - segregation - even in some of our nicer suburbs - is still quite prevalent.
You are so correct and this is why there is black flight out of Michigan. Who wants to continue to live around close minded bigoted people? This is why not Detroit is bad, but the state of Michigan will never recover until this separatist movement is resolved.

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Old 04-06-2008, 12:11 PM
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One Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the roughOne Thousand is a jewel in the rough
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Originally Posted by rmccain View Post
You are so correct and this is why there is black flight out of Michigan. Who wants to continue to live around close minded bigoted people? This is why not Detroit is bad, but the state of Michigan will never recover until this separatist movement is resolved.
Would you describe this closed-mindedness, bigotry and seperatism? I've never been aware of it.

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Old 04-06-2008, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deslok View Post
I gotta say, where do I start? You're comments offend me to a decent degree, being that part of my family is Colombian. Sure you make that comment in jest, and I don't take it personally, but I feel your attitude is part of the problem with Michigan.Going to the ministry yet mention you hate aspects of how people dress. How can a good God following person hate anything, let alone give someone enough power to actually feel hate? What have they done to you? Get out of Michigan and visit a city such as New York or Chicago even. That is just how people dress, and believe it or not some folks make millions of dollars dressing in baggy designer clothes, and would not hate someone back for how they dressed. Who knows, they might even be smarter, or more educated then you or I, but be in the business of entertainment and speak with ebonics to make money off of it ( as a persona)Who knows.Rap is entertainment for the money, just as evil heavy metal, and John Mayor.
I would much rather talk to someone that is in baggy clothes, looks like crap perhaps, and is an interesting, intelligent, caring person, rather then a dressed up, neat looking supposed Christian that's a judgemental jerk. Is white flight right? Who knows. We all have a fight or flight response to certain things, and everyone has their own breaking points. Rather then blaming Michigan black America for everything, I'd say the thinking of white Michigan residents is in a lot of cases 30-40 years behind the rest of the states, and it shows in these forums. People are not on earth to please you, me, or anyone else on this planet. They are just there, some a little more respectful of the rules we have, some not. Be cognizant of that before you judge based on appearance.
Not all Colombians do coke. Do all youth ministry students molest 12 year olds? I wouldn't presume so.
Columbians import and deal it. I didn't say they all did, nor are they the only ones who do.
Coming from a standpoint of race relations and race progress of African Americans, urban sub-culture, regardless of those who make money off of it, is detrimental to the race as a whole. It perpetuates stereotypes to a degree, but more importantly it promotes a self-destructive lifestyle.
What am I supposed to think when I see the kid walking into the grocery store dressed in Timberlains, baggy jeans, and a puffy jacket being followed or lead by a girl with a baby or toddler in tow? It's not just blacks, I see whites dress and act like this too. Yes, people make millions of dollars off these kids. However, is it worth? Rapping about drugs and gang violence, disrespect for women, and sexual promiscuity; these kids emulate that. They want to be "gangsta" like their favorite rappers. It's sick. You probably never hear about it, but I bet there are plenty of hispanic and african american families that move out of bad neighborhoods because of escalating gang violence and drug problems. You just never hear about it because they're not white. There's a focus on minorities for a lot of issues; however, there's an equaly important focus on whites for other issues.
Wow, I love how I'm a judgmental jerk because I have strong opinions concerning urban sub-culture. I didn't say anything bad about the people. It's the lifestyle I take issue with. I have absolutely no problem with gays, women, or anyone of any race. I take issue with drug abuse, promiscuity, domestic violence, drug dealing, gangs, etc. If you don't, then it looks like you're the one who needs to check himself.

You are correct in saying that I shouldn't hate. I don't. It's too strong a word. Correction: I dislike intensely.

For the record, get your stereotypes correct: it's supposed to be Catholic priests that molest 12 year olds, not youth workers.

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Last edited by PolyphonicSpr33; 04-06-2008 at 12:35 PM. Reason: expansion
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