[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by hairmetal4ever

It's the school systems.

That's the main issue. White parents see a mostly black school and, rightly or wrongly, assume it's either unsafe or academically challenged, or both.

However, the reasons for that belief are twofold - partly rooted in prejudice, either malicious or subconscious, and also, statistics that show that
a majority black school district almost always underperforms a majority white one - even for the same socioeconomic conditions in the district. For some reason, one that we cannot yet determine, statistically it tends to be true.

Not trying to stir this pot inappropriately, but, considering there's evidence to support predominantly black schools are academically challenged, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that white parents "consider the odds a black dominant schools will underperform" as opposed to "white parents assume it will underperform?"

"Assume" gives the impression that it's unjustified, but you later justify it.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong either, but I thought the phrasing was interesting.

[GoBlue7]

I am new to this forum also, but this thread caught my eye. In the particular area I live- (Flint) both whites and blacks have exited the city for better schools and safer neighborhoods in the suburbs. Flint is very segregated no doubt, but I have personally talked with some blacks in some pretty nice neighborhoods ( I work for a delivery service ), and in talking with some of them the subject of Flint has come up several times. Even they admitted how bad Flint is and they moved out because they didn't feel the schools were adequate, and the safety for their children was a issue. I think this is the overall perception of most whites that the inner cities are unsafe., therefore they choose to spend little time if any there. Right or wrong, whites live with blacks in the suburbs and there are no problems ,but they do feel unsafe in the inner city living in the predominately black neighborhoods. Drug dealers, prostitutes, are just some of the issues that are in the city. Also the police departments are severely underfunded in the city making it that much more unsafe.

[hairmetal4ever]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Not trying to stir this pot inappropriately, but, considering there's evidence to support predominantly black schools are academically challenged, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that white parents "consider the odds a black dominant schools will underperform" as opposed to "white parents assume it will underperform?"

"Assume" gives the impression that it's unjustified, but you later justify it.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong either, but I thought the phrasing was interesting.

Actually I think it goes both ways - a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will. Whites and Blacks alike (the latter probably either subconsciously or due to the "acting white" stigma among black kids that do well in school) assume that a black-majority school will do poorly, and then it does.

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by hairmetal4ever

Actually I think it goes both ways - a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will. Whites and Blacks alike (the latter probably either subconsciously or due to the "acting white" stigma among black kids that do well in school) assume that a black-majority school will do poorly, and then it does.

I think you've said a mouthful... You're saying whites are partially responsible for the underperformance of black schools because blacks choose to fail. Or, phrased another way, whites cause the failure of blacks by letting them make their own decisions.

[hairmetal4ever]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

I think you've said a mouthful... You're saying whites are partially responsible for the underperformance of black schools because blacks choose to fail. Or, phrased another way, whites cause the failure of blacks by letting them make their own decisions.

No, I didn't say that. I just said that there is a bit of a situation where people get what they expect to get, regardless of race.

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by hairmetal4ever

No, I didn't say that. I just said that there is a bit of a situation where people get what they expect to get, regardless of race.

Then you're saying the culture in an area, where white flight has occurred, automatically believes the schools are now bad because of white flight-- or because of what's left following the flight? And the voters, parents and faculty become disheartened because they're surrounded by a majority of black kids and they're, due to racism in some form, whether conscious or subconcious, feel disempowered to help the their school progress?

Are you a Detroit native?

[rmccain]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Not trying to stir this pot inappropriately, but, considering there's evidence to support predominantly black schools are academically challenged, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that white parents "consider the odds a black dominant schools will underperform" as opposed to "white parents assume it will underperform?"

"Assume" gives the impression that it's unjustified, but you later justify it.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong either, but I thought the phrasing was interesting.

Let me say that my schools have been in both areas, and both underperform. Their are some suburbian (white areas) that is just as bad as the city (black areas). The only areas that are academically progressing is the high profile suburbian areas, the reason being the parents are demanding higher education resources due to the high cost of taxes that they bring to the community, and the teachers know they will be held accountable for thier actions.

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by rmccain

Let me say that my schools have been in both areas, and both underperform. Their are some suburbian (white areas) that is just as bad as the city (black areas). The only areas that are academically progressing is the high profile suburbian areas, the reason being the parents are demanding higher education resources due to the high cost of taxes that they bring to the community, and the teachers know they will be held accountable for thier actions.

I was asking for clarification about a posters opinion that appeared to be self-contradicting. (Is that a word?)

In regard to your post, please cite sources for suburban schools doing as poorly as city schools; a correlation between resource allocation and student achievement; and no other schools progressing except where resource allocation equals that of the "high-profile" schools.

Further, in regard to your use of "under perform," please explain definitevly what level should be achieved.

For the record, I'm not arguing with either of you. I'd just like to know why you hold your opinions and what you mean by them.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Not trying to stir this pot inappropriately, but, considering there's evidence to support predominantly black schools are academically challenged, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that white parents "consider the odds a black dominant schools will underperform" as opposed to "white parents assume it will underperform?"

"Assume" gives the impression that it's unjustified, but you later justify it.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong either, but I thought the phrasing was interesting.

As someone who has taught in predominately black schools, as well as predominately white schools, let me give you my insight.

Predominately black schools are violent, dangerous, with low test scores because a) black students, on average, do not value education as much as white students; b) black students are more disruptive than white students

Put those together, you end up with an environment not conducive to learning. A large percentage of the teachers in predominately black schools are white, unless the school is overwhelmingly black, say 95% +. The teachers are generally qualified, it is that the atmosphere, courtesy of the students and the lifestyle, attitude, behaviors, culture, and genetics that they bring to the school, is not conducive to much learning.

The argument about poverty is pure CRAP. It may make things worse, but it isn't the cause of the vast chasm of different schools across different demographics. I've taught in a classroom environment with lower middle class white kids, and I've taught in an environment with middle middle class black kids, and the classroom full of lower middle class whites was far more orderly and conducive to learning.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by hairmetal4ever

Actually I think it goes both ways - a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will. Whites and Blacks alike (the latter probably either subconsciously or due to the "acting white" stigma among black kids that do well in school) assume that a black-majority school will do poorly, and then it does.

Black majority schools (not necessarily elementary, but rather middle and high) do poorly because the kids generally have little respect for learning, education, and authority.

I've taught in predominately black schools and predominately white schools, and the idea of blacks doing poorly because of a "stigma" is pure nonsense.