[Nearborn]

How come nobody blames black people for moving out of what could be a viable black neighborhood if it weren't for all the tax-paying, two-parent, active-in-my-kids'-school black folks bailing out?

Bottom line is that people have a right to live wherever the hell they can afford to live for whatever reason they want to live there. I don't have time to move back to Detroit to make it a better place. I have a family to raise. Realistically, I don't have enough years left on this earth to wait for, or take an active role in, making Detroit a good place to raise kids. Chances are, my kids won't even see an improvement in Detroit during their lifetime to the extent that it becomes good place to raise kids.

Detroit has become disposable like a non-rechargable battery. It's a place for single people or married people with no kids to have some fun and corporations to take advantage of tax breaks.

The bottom, bottom line? The backbone of this country, Americans, regardless of race and hyphens, who marry, have kids, go to work and pay taxes, have no place in places like Detroit.

[detshen]

Originally Posted by Giesela

I agree nice post detshen. I think people of all colors, religions, ethnic backgrounds want a safe place to raise their families.
That said I don't think its wrong to want live among what is familiar to you. All classes of different color, ethnic, religious backgrounds have certain cultural norms that they feel comfortable with. When others with different cultural norms start to surround someone, they want to leave and find their comfort zone again. That can be confused with racism which I don't support, and sometimes its hard to tell the difference, if there is one. Some people are more adaptable than others. But I also think that seeking what's familiar to you is just natural.
If a black family finally saves enough to buy a house in a better part of town with better schools has two choices all other things being equal but for one being a black neighborhood and one a white neighborhood (assuming there is no racism in the white neighborhood) - do you blame them for choosing the black neighborhood?

I don't blame anyone for any choice they make. I only post my opinions, I expect people to follow their own. We all need to do what's best for our families.

I do think it's important that we give a lot of thought to our natural inclinations. Throughout time humans have lived in tribes and we have an instinct to be fearful of people who look different from us. That is natural, understandable, and doesn't make someone a racist or bad person. Humans also have brains that can truly think through an instinctual reaction. A lot of people of all races don't bother to do this, and I find that sad because it will continue the racial divide we have in this country if we just make snap judgements or believe in stereotypes. I encourage people to interact with other races if they can, it can deeply change a person to realize that we all want the same basic things, and underneath our skin we are all just human, much more alike than different.

[windfarmer]

Originally Posted by detshen

The other main type is cheating and lying "white collar" crimes and frauds, that are based on sheer greed and selfishness. Those crimes are almost exclusively committed by middle to upper class white people. We tend to ignore these crimes, but they actually cause a tremendous amount of loss and and pain to far more people than are ever affected by inner city crime.

Criminals with baggy pants hanging off their a$$e$ or criminals with $4000 wool suits.. take your pick which is worse.

But there is NO COMPARISON between a young gun-toting hoodlum blasting somebody's brains out for his wallet, and a slick executive bilking investors for several million. While they are both serious crimes, the latter does not end in bloodshed and bodily injury. There IS a difference. I would not care to live around any criminal, but given a choice, I would not hesitate to pick the executive as my neighbor. At least the very core of my existence – my life – is not threatened.

Money can be forced to be repaid.. Death cannot be undone.

I make no apology. I hate Detroit because of exactly what it is: crime-ridden, dangerous, dog-eat-dog.. just look at Kwame. His very leadership and qualities are the manifestation of the typical Detroiter's general modus operandi. Get rich quick or die tryin'.... right "homies"?

Just as America is aching to see Obama become the first black prez.. I'm curious to see what kind of improvements Detroit would readily witness should a white mayor be voted in.

and don't accuse me of being a white-power, Klan-type.. I'm not even white.

[detshen]

I never said white collar crime was worse, I said it affected more people. Obviously severe bodily injury is the worst crime anyone can suffer. The point was it's not only inner city people who choose to break the law, lie, cheat and steal, but people tend to ignore "high class" crimes.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by detshen

Throughout time humans have lived in tribes and we have an instinct to be fearful of people who look different from us. That is natural, understandable, and doesn't make someone a racist or bad person. Humans also have brains that can truly think through an instinctual reaction. A lot of people of all races don't bother to do this, and I find that sad because it will continue the racial divide we have in this country if we just make snap judgements or believe in stereotypes. I encourage people to interact with other races if they can, it can deeply change a person to realize that we all want the same basic things, and underneath our skin we are all just human, much more alike than different.

Why not address the issues that lead to white flight and black middle class flight such as a desire to get away from crime and a destructive third world underclass rather than imply that it's all a matter of baseless racism? Blaming whitey and blaming all of the problems of the inner cities' third world underclass on racism might feel good but it's not going to solve any problems. Why is it if white people are so racist as a result of our base human nature as you've implied with this post that they don't have problems dealing with Asian Americans or minorities who are members of the upper middle class?

The real solution to these problems is for blacks to look inward, grow up, abandon the victim mentality, get their house in order, and solve their problems on their own without whites. The only solution is for blacks to focus on improving the overall quality of the people who compose the black community so that as a whole, blacks are model citizens in which case eventually, whites will perceive them that way. When you can do that, white flight will no longer be an issue.

[detshen]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

Why not address the issues that lead to white flight and black middle class flight such as a desire to get away from crime and a destructive third world underclass rather than imply that it's all a matter of baseless racism? Blaming whitey and blaming all of the problems of the inner cities' third world underclass on racism might feel good but it's not going to solve any problems. Why is it if white people are so racist as a result of our base human nature as you've implied with this post that they don't have problems dealing with Asian Americans or minorities who are members of the upper middle class?

The real solution to these problems is for blacks to look inward, grow up, abandon the victim mentality, get their house in order, and solve their problems on their own without whites. The only solution is for blacks to focus on improving the overall quality of the people who compose the black community so that as a whole, blacks are model citizens in which case eventually, whites will perceive them that way. When you can do that, white flight will no longer be an issue.

We all get your one note, but my post had nothing to do with that. I have no clue how you got "blaming whitey" out of an anthropological observation that affects all humans of all races and it does come into play with upper class people. We get past it by using our brains, and deciding they are safe and "like us"

BTW the post I was responding to was about a black family choosing to live in a mostly black neighborhood and I said it WASN'T necessarily racist to want to be close to people you feel comfortable with.

[Hoarfrost]

Of course White Flight is the most self-defeating concept ever thought up, if unintentionally. A state's economy depends on a functional relationship between its Urban Metro areas, which are its centers of commerce, and its suburban and rural areas. If the Urban areas, the commercial centers, fail, then the ripple effect will cripple the economy in the entire state. This is the issue with a lot of rust-belt states in general.

Look at areas like the major cities of Texas, Atlanta, Georgia, among other places where there hasn't been an exodus of the white population; The state economies are not near as horrible as the Rust-Belt economies.

The people of Michigan will learn, one way or another, that the only way to be prosperous is to step into the 21st century and get along(if only to work). As for me I'm leaving you bunch of kids behind.

[solibs]

Wow. This is an interesting topic. The next census will show it for sure but I think in Philadelphia we have entered a period of black flight. Right now we're 42% and 42% Sure, there are still whites that are leaving the city but for every one of the old , white curmudgeons that moves out 2 more young whites move in.

Now that property values have increased dramatically a lot of the older blacks are selling out and moving to Delaware, Georgia or South Carolina. The younger black families are moving to the suburbs.

I live in Philly now but I didn't grow up here. I grew up in NJ. The area I grew up in was invaded by wave after wave of white people from Staten Island and North Jersey. The culture of the place has changed so much that I barely recognize it. I'm white too but to put into perspective - imagine if you're living in suburban Detroit and thousands of really rich, white southerners start taking over your town. When you finish college, not only can you not afford to move home if you wanted to, there's nothing left to move back to. Everyone you know is gone and everything you used to enjoy doing is gone or has changed dramatically.

[pirate_lafitte]

I am gioing to bring this all to a point. Humans tend to want to live around people who look like them. It is a trait in human nature. There is initial fear of anyone who looks different and no statistics can ingrain that in anyone. Statistics justmake it easier to justify attitudes. "White flight" happened early on because alot of people just didn't want anyone who wasn't white living there. Why? One of the goals of suburbia was to move into a community where everyone was of the same race and to keep it "white". Why do you think there were restrictive covenants and sundown laws in many places?
Alot of people act under the "my property values will go down" mentality. Well, if one sells a house at less than market value, almost anyone could get that house, and that happens alot. In the end the reason some residents move into a certain neighborhood knowing they'll be the "one" minority there, disappears. The very lowlifers for whom many people try to escape seem to follow.
Human nature, the want for living around one's own kind and fearing anyone who looks different without even knowing that individual, can contribute to "white flight".

[burgler09]

Is it our fault white people choose to better their lives and move out than to live in a dumpy ghetto and try to brag about how much worse their hood is? No, I think not.