[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by stars&bars

Killers do come in all races but when you have over 200 killings in one city in LESS THAN ONE YEAR, I'm talking about the city of Filthadelphia then there is a racial problem or a problem race committing the killings and former Mayor of Filthadelphia John Street even proclaimed at one time THAT THE BROTHERS AND SISTERS ARE RUNNING THE CITY so now you have the answer why WHITEY is leaving the cities!!!!!!!!

How do you know that all of those killings are race-related? For all we know, some of those kiilings could be peple fighting over women, drugs, money and other crap. As far as the race issue is concerned, this is what I see. It is mainly blacks killing other blacks. What does that tell me? The problem is between one another.

[MGD]

Why does white flight MATTER?

I am assuming they leave areas that begin to become rundown, dirty, unfamily-friendly, with rising crime rates, and possibly rising levels of after-hours noise...

Isn't that what everybody should be doing?

And...if we are going to say the black people didn't have the money to leave, then shouldn't it be called MIDDLE-CLASS flight? Not white flight?

Why does it matter what white people do? Maybe if they are all gone and businesses and jobs with them...the remaining folks need to get on their mayors to bring other companies with other jobs to the city...but most jobs are IN cities, so that is not the issue, because the same "flight" folks then have to kill the gas bill driving back to the city for work...so the jobs are there...discrimination in who gets those jobs, I can see...but the white flight thing is just talking about where white people decide to lay their head at night...

Why does this matter? I have heard this accusation going on for as long as I've been in this country and I wonder why.

I do whatever I can to live in a good school zone...I don't pay attention to the racial makeup of a place until it's time to get my hair done...but it so happens, thus far, that everywhere that is a good school zone, is also majority white...so when I tell people where I'm living, or moving...it's "oh you're going to live out there with them white people"...and I have to correct them NO, I am going to live in a good school zone, and it so happens it's got mostly white people in it...

That's the reason I will end up in Michigan,actually...there are no other AS-degree granting institutions with family housing on campus THAT ARE IN GOOD SCHOOL ZONES...everytime I see a potential place to live, I go on greatschools.net and check out the school zone it's in, and where the highest ranked schools are in that town.

I am in the best school zone in my county right now and that is the only reason I wish I didn't have to leave...

Got crap to do with the race of people there. Would be nice to see more black people but if they are not thinking like me and all want to pack up in schools that they think are good but are not...that's them. The same skin colour next door doesn't help pay bills or ease MY stress any so I don't care. Except when I need to do my hair. lol.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by MGD

Why does white flight MATTER?

I am assuming they leave areas that begin to become rundown, dirty, unfamily-friendly, with rising crime rates, and possibly rising levels of after-hours noise...

Isn't that what everybody should be doing?

And...if we are going to say the black people didn't have the money to leave, then shouldn't it be called MIDDLE-CLASS flight? Not white flight?

Why does it matter what white people do? Maybe if they are all gone and businesses and jobs with them...the remaining folks need to get on their mayors to bring other companies with other jobs to the city...but most jobs are IN cities, so that is not the issue, because the same "flight" folks then have to kill the gas bill driving back to the city for work...so the jobs are there...discrimination in who gets those jobs, I can see...but the white flight thing is just talking about where white people decide to lay their head at night...

Why does this matter? I have heard this accusation going on for as long as I've been in this country and I wonder why.

I do whatever I can to live in a good school zone...I don't pay attention to the racial makeup of a place until it's time to get my hair done...but it so happens, thus far, that everywhere that is a good school zone, is also majority white...so when I tell people where I'm living, or moving...it's "oh you're going to live out there with them white people"...and I have to correct them NO, I am going to live in a good school zone, and it so happens it's got mostly white people in it...

That's the reason I will end up in Michigan,actually...there are no other AS-degree granting institutions with family housing on campus THAT ARE IN GOOD SCHOOL ZONES...everytime I see a potential place to live, I go on greatschools.net and check out the school zone it's in, and where the highest ranked schools are in that town.

I am in the best school zone in my county right now and that is the only reason I wish I didn't have to leave...

Got crap to do with the race of people there. Would be nice to see more black people but if they are not thinking like me and all want to pack up in schools that they think are good but are not...that's them. The same skin colour next door doesn't help pay bills or ease MY stress any so I don't care. Except when I need to do my hair. lol.

Be careful of the greatschools.net ratings. They are generally based on test scores and comments. So, that leaves out other intangibles too.

I think with White Flight, in this country, race and economics have had a huge connection since day one. So, that's why there is an issue, as well as the impact that the real estate industry had on this. Many in this industry would use scare tactics to make Whites leave urban neighborhoods. Think about how the "American dream" is connected to home ownership and how many look at minorities as bringing the value down. Check this out:Redlining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , Redlining

Racial steering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Blockbusting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , Steering

Blockbusting

Also, urban renewal killed many urban neighborhoods that had high minority populations, which in turn forced them to live in neighborhoods in which the people didn't want them there in the first place. Two examples of this are:the Hill district of Pittsburgh and the old 15th Ward of Syracuse. Urban renewal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Urban Renewal


So, there are many dynamics that people, natives and newer arrivals, don't know about, because they aren't talked about extensively or taught in academia.

[Bideshi]

Should we stay and be sued, robbed, and killed out of existence? No thanks. Party on.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

Should we stay and be sued, robbed, and killed out of existence? No thanks. Party on.

Actually, do you think that such persons would live in the area if people stayed in their homes? People had to leave in order for said people to even move into that neighborhood. Hence, the root of that issue goes back to the scare tactics, among other things. That's why stability is such an important aspect in housing and really in life in general.

[pirate_lafitte]

This is what I have to say about "white flight". There are some people who want better schools and safer places to live. With that said, it is often difficult to tell who is leaving for safety and better schools and who is leaving because they don't want to live around minorities no matter how upstanding they are. The reason for this is because for many years, that is what whites did. Whenever minorites came in, many whites started to leave. Nowadays blacks are leaving for the suburbs as well. It is difficult to tell because in many cases the people who want to have safer neighborhoods and better schools are often mixed in with the people who don't want to live around minorities. It works the same way with many African-Americans. Few people ever tell anyone that there are good upstanding African-Americans who just happen to live in the bad areas. Sometimes people can't tell because the only things you hear are about "so and so murdered so and so". Many of the good people are there living amongst the criminals because a)they don't feel welcomed anywhere else
b)they can't afford to live anywhere else
c)there is a feeling of "this is my neighborhood and no one is going to chase me out".

[Bideshi]

The demographic shift usually begins with decent, hard working black families trying to find a better life for their family moving into a white neighborhood. Then what they left follows them.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

This is what I have to say about "white flight". There are some people who want better schools and safer places to live. With that said, it is often difficult to tell who is leaving for safety and better schools and who is leaving because they don't want to live around minorities no matter how upstanding they are. The reason for this is because for many years, that is what whites did. Whenever minorites came in, many whites started to leave. Nowadays blacks are leaving for the suburbs as well. It is difficult to tell because in many cases the people who want to have safer neighborhoods and better schools are often mixed in with the people who don't want to live around minorities. It works the same way with many African-Americans. Few people ever tell anyone that there are good upstanding African-Americans who just happen to live in the bad areas. Sometimes people can't tell because the only things you hear are about "so and so murdered so and so". Many of the good people are there living amongst the criminals because a)they don't feel welcomed anywhere else
b)they can't afford to live anywhere else
c)there is a feeling of "this is my neighborhood and no one is going to chase me out".

Very good points.....

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

The demographic shift usually begins with decent, hard working black families trying to find a better life for their family moving into a white neighborhood. Then what they left follows them.

My thing is that how do they follow them if the other families stay? you're right, that's how it happens, but some leave regardless of if the Black families are decent. Many times, the Black families were forced out due to things like urban renewal too.

Also, as suburban areas grew, many Whites were attracted to those areas and even in those cases, covenents were put up in some of those communities.

Now, we have sprawl and all kinds of people are moving further and further out. I do wonder if gentrification and the state of the economy will bring people back closer to, if not into the cities again though.

[MGD]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Be careful of the greatschools.net ratings. They are generally based on test scores and comments. So, that leaves out other intangibles too.

I think with White Flight, in this country, race and economics have had a huge connection since day one. So, that's why there is an issue, as well as the impact that the real estate industry had on this. Many in this industry would use scare tactics to make Whites leave urban neighborhoods. Think about how the "American dream" is connected to home ownership and how many look at minorities as bringing the value down. Check this out:Redlining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , Redlining

Racial steering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Blockbusting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , Steering

Blockbusting

Also, urban renewal killed many urban neighborhoods that had high minority populations, which in turn forced them to live in neighborhoods in which the people didn't want them there in the first place. Two examples of this are:the Hill district of Pittsburgh and the old 15th Ward of Syracuse. Urban renewal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Urban Renewal


So, there are many dynamics that people, natives and newer arrivals, don't know about, because they aren't talked about extensively or taught in academia.

Test scores are what I need to know though...the school my son attends now is rated a 9 or 10...the school he'd be going to in Traverse City is ranked 8...8, 9, and 10 are acceptable scores to me...and so are the comments of those in the know, i.e. people whose kids go to the school, people who are on these boards who know traverse city public schools...

The school he goes to now, 90% or higher of all students achieve on or above grade level on state tests, math, reading, and so on...other schools that the state may rank "A" schools, when you look at the actual number achieving on or above grade level, it's 70% and less...that's a C to me.

Schools where the kids are making the grades generally have parents who are teaching their kids how to behave (which means my son isn't going to be distracted from his learning by bullsh*t), teachers who know how to teach and how to communicate with the parents, and better resources to get the learning points across. That's what I need right there, less uphill struggle for me than sending him to a bad or so-so school where I must correct all kinds of things I don't like ON TOP OF being a single parent.

He's been to an A, B, and C school and I can tell the difference with all three, right down to the administration's capability and smarts or lack thereof. Makes a big difference in my life and stress levels.

I see what you are saying on the white flight and thanks for the links, I will check them out. It just seems to me calling it white flight implies that anything the white people are doing must be good or better, so if they leave it's cause to complain...then when they move back in, it's gentrification and it's another cause to complain.

There are people who are ignorant to me because I'm black and they are white, and people who are ignorant to me because they are american black and I am a foreigner...I guess I'll read up on it for understanding and context but it's very hard to share the concern...I have cousins who didn't like the fact that the ghetto was creeping up on their area in Jamaica, and up and left it...that's what people DO, esp. when they have children...I lived in a hood area for 4 months after graduation because I had to find a job before taking on too high of a rent bill...and I couldn't even take my kids outside to play because then there would be beer bottles and cans everywhere like the entire paking lot was a personal dumpster, cigarettes everywhere, someone's costume jewellery broke they threw the whole thing out in the lot, so my daughter is wondering if she should put it in her mouth...nosy people who have money for beer and cigs all day but ask ME, who's not working, for foil, diapers, wipes, meat, headache meds, any and everything, like I'm rich or something...I got out of there on my first cheque, even though it meant living with nearly nothing til I got paid again (til i lost the job).

And I hated seeing police flying with sirens wailing every 2 seconds...I once had to sit for nearly an hour in the road waiting on 2 patrol cars blocking the entrance to the complex who were resolving a domestic dispute with a lady and her man who are constantly having said disputes...her sister said she is afraid to live by herself cause she's never lived by herself, that's why she stays with the guy...I'm like wtf WHAT? 40 how much years old and dependent like a child...I had a husband that was acting up and not doing his job and I didn't beg him to stay. I don't understand her thinking. If I am going to do bad, I can do it by myself.

Anyway, all that stuff I am not use to, that was my first, and LAST, time in the hood. It was also impossible to meet decent men there, and that got very depressing. Everybody who tried to talk to me was unemployed, severely underemployed, or illegally "employed."

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

This is what I have to say about "white flight". There are some people who want better schools and safer places to live. With that said, it is often difficult to tell who is leaving for safety and better schools and who is leaving because they don't want to live around minorities no matter how upstanding they are. The reason for this is because for many years, that is what whites did. Whenever minorites came in, many whites started to leave. Nowadays blacks are leaving for the suburbs as well. It is difficult to tell because in many cases the people who want to have safer neighborhoods and better schools are often mixed in with the people who don't want to live around minorities. It works the same way with many African-Americans. Few people ever tell anyone that there are good upstanding African-Americans who just happen to live in the bad areas. Sometimes people can't tell because the only things you hear are about "so and so murdered so and so". Many of the good people are there living amongst the criminals because a)they don't feel welcomed anywhere else
b)they can't afford to live anywhere else
c)there is a feeling of "this is my neighborhood and no one is going to chase me out".

I can understand old people being attached...