[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by wagonman76

I think most, including myself, could care less what color or shade someone is. Detroit is one of, if not the most, violent US city. I wouldn't want to live there. Another reason is that the Michigan economy is in the dumps. People are leaving in droves, and with Detroit being the biggest Michigan city and prime automotive industry, it only makes sense that most of the people leaving are leaving from Detroit.

Detroit is in fact a violent city. It has a history of violence. Detroit was once of the major lines for smuggling illicit booze(in through Canada). You had the Purple Gang. What has happened to the Detroit of today is a result of what happened in yesteryear. The automobile industry was going under hard times, jobs started going under. Combine that with the racial tensions going on and many people started leaving. This left the city with a shrinking tax base and many services started to dwindle. Lack of jobs, dwindling city services, and other issues in combination is a recipe for violence to get out of control. Many people who could afford it left. The ones who stayed on were those who were either diehards for Detroit and those who couldn't afford to leave. What upsets me is that many people are willing to write Detroit off as a lost cause. To me, Detroit is not a lost cause. It is a city that needs some serious work.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Marjoriewaluye

I grew up Wayne County, Michigan in a segregated suburb. I rarely encountered white people and those I saw were red-neck trailer types. The black people in my community were middle class (Sorta like Southfield). There is nothing wrong with black people moving to suburbs, they are fulfilling the American Dream.
The dream doesn't necessarily include white people, its about home ownership and good schools.

That's the real problem. It's not white flight, it's middle class flight and when the middle class packs up and gets out, that doesn't improve a neighborhood. The positive role models are now gone, businesses become shabby.

If all the middle class whites leave and the middle class blacks were to remain, it wouldn't matter so much but when they're packing up as fast as their white counterparts, that's the problem.

[Ummagumma]

Originally Posted by malamute

That's the real problem. It's not white flight, it's middle class flight and when the middle class packs up and gets out, that doesn't improve a neighborhood. The positive role models are now gone, businesses become shabby.

If all the middle class whites leave and the middle class blacks were to remain, it wouldn't matter so much but when they're packing up as fast as their white counterparts, that's the problem.

There wasn't as many black middle class.

Anyway, it's not the race; and it's not the class; it's the mentality. And the mentality comes with culture, the people all around you sharing the same mindset; ghetto culture breeds ghetto mentality, just like redneck culture breeds redneck mentality. Detroit has plenty of ghetto mentality, more so than any other city with a large black population I've been to. And this mentality is just as racist as any white racists have ever been. At our work, there's a few young black guys and gals, all of them college educated professionals with middle class background. They are as liked and respected as anyone else. I noticed one thing though - when there's only one or two of them at lunch, they sit down with other people; when there's enough of them to form their own table, they always sit by themselves - they separate themselves from the rest of us. Now, we work in a diverse environment with plenty of people from different backgrounds (Oriental, Indian, European, plain white Americans) yet this is the only group that behaves that way. Now, I repeat - they are all well educated, middle class people. Not everyone in Soutfield or esp. Detroit is that way; a lot of them are poorly educated and very angry; why would anyone who's not black want to live in a majority black neighborhood where you're seen as a part of some evil oppressing force ? I'm not even talking about crime or drug rate.

It's obvious that the white America's mindset had to change - and I think for large part it did; I'm not as sure it changed on the other side, esp. not in Detroit.

[deslok]

I agree it is a class thing. Spend any time in cities like Battle Creek, or smaller towns in western Michigan and you feel like you are down south! (redneck types of folks that is) I think there is a class of people below middle in this state that identifiy themselves as the middle class that are a huge part of the problem.

[Ummagumma]

Originally Posted by deslok

I agree it is a class thing. Spend any time in cities like Battle Creek, or smaller towns in western Michigan and you feel like you are down south! (redneck types of folks that is) I think there is a class of people below middle in this state that identifiy themselves as the middle class that are a huge part of the problem.

I think we're saying the same thing, I just disagree with definition. A "class" is defined purely by the income, and I've seen plenty of rich rednecks. It's the mentality that defines a person.

[miniature]

Originally Posted by kcam213

absolutely right!

My mom who is still alive and live in Ohio, witnessed the aftermath of a lynching that occured when she was a little girl, may 7 or 8. She bears no ill will toward white people, nor did she raised her children to harbor hatred.

This attitude exemplifies HER good character... not that of white people.

not everyone who has experienced similiar terrifying experiences will have that same good character. Some black people took the seeds of hatred that was thrown at them in the 60's and grew it inside of themselves. And they have passed that hatred on to their offspring.

Some white people have inherited this hatred, other have cultivated it from bad experiences from black people who spew this hatred.

Sorry mess this country's race relations is. It won't get any better because neither side want to admit that it is possible their hatred is not justified.

So some white will continue to run for the hills, and then due to decline in the neighborhood because of lack of city services, police protection and yes the hooligan antics of a few hoods, will cause some blacks to run for the hills as well. And the cycle continues.

This is one of the reasons you see a boom in areas like Grand Rapids and a decline in the larger urban areas like Flint, and Detroit. Eventually, GR will intergrate as well....
When does it end? Can't we all get along???

Sure we can all get along. I come from a very small town in Michigan.,
2 black families in the whole town, One of them is my own doctor.
They have been there for many yrs now. They get along very well with everyone and the doctor has a long standing successful practice there.

No one cares a bit that they are black, and never has.

This seems to be a big city thing more then anything, I have lived all over the country. I don't see this problem nearly as much anywhere except in big cities.

I really dont think this has much to do with poverty either. I have lived in very poor areas of the country , and very wealthy ones too.

It doesn't seem to matter. In the big cities you have a lot more angry people both black and white. You have a lot more gangsta rapper types and people sporting face jewelry and baggie pants too. Loud music and ill kept property, road rage and rude people in stores.

This is true from one side of this country to the other no matter where you go. I have traveled it , lived it, I know from first hand experience.

It seems to be a rap, pop culture or something, but it is not a culture that I would want to live in for a very long time.

As long as there is a culture clash there will be problems , and it really has nothing to do with skin color at all.

Oh there are a few that just don't like blacks, but for the most part people don't like the culture, it is not that they care about the skin color.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by deslok

I agree it is a class thing. Spend any time in cities like Battle Creek, or smaller towns in western Michigan and you feel like you are down south! (redneck types of folks that is) I think there is a class of people below middle in this state that identifiy themselves as the middle class that are a huge part of the problem.

I would hardly imagine BC like that, seeing as Post and Kellogs are there. Then again, I have never been there.

[todd00]

mr.248, ive only read the first of the 46 pages to this thread. your race getting talked about so negatively could be a result of individual behaviors that predominate many lower income black communities. if you want to point fingers, point them at the black community itself. black on black killings far outweigh interracial murders. gang influence is a staple of most "ghetto" communities thats a fact. its easy to shift the blame to others, but i dont see the black community fighting to take back their neighborhoods. why dont YOU make an effort to change these stereotypes?? do some volunteer work with kids, join the big brothers organization. this 46 pages isnt doing anything for the youth growing up with no positive male role models, is it? rare to see upper middleclass blacks doing anything to help or change the hoods. they live the upper middle class lifestyle in the burbs like the white folk there. lastly, you yourself are painting sweeping remarks about all whites, yet you dont want the same things done about blacks.

i think most pple are willing to give another a chance regardless of race. what counts is the quality of the person, not the color. there are more interracial marriages than ever before. i myself was married to a black woman, but neither of us would have wanted to live in a high crime area known for violent and gang activity. she would have been saying just as loudly as i would, this neighborhood isnt for us. why do pple leave a certain area, if the area begins to change the home owner is concerned about the value of his property and the safety of the neighborhood. pple arent rooted as they use to be either, better job propects, and other factors are all reasons why pple may move on. this is an old topic, surely one you can find volumes on it right here on city-data. pples mindstate, says...i dont want to live in a neighborhood where im likely to get shot. i want a place where my children can feel safe. anyone with a grain of logic would want the same thing.

will1979, your comment, "If we are caught committing a crime we are forgiven for it by our white friends (favors)". i dont know where you live, but there are many pple that are arrested in large and small communities everyday that are white, that have no friends that are going to get them off the hook. how many here have white friends that forgive our traffic tickets, or other crimes? that certainly is not the norm. im wondering if willy lives in hazzard county and roscoe is the sheriff.

[Felicialisa4040]

Originally Posted by willy1979

I am new to the forum and this conversation caught my attention. I will give my personal belief and then what I know to be true from my experience. The crime rate between white and blacks does not differ as much as the media and society would like you to believe. It is just that white are great pretenders. This have been instilled in us from birth. We like to envision the world around us as perfect if we are in an all white atmosphere. But the truth is that we do get away with more because we are not watched as closely as blacks. We have in our homes abuse, physically, sexually, and emotionally. We steal, lie (boy do we lie), cheat on our wives, create children out of wedlock( we just abort them). The truth is by staying in our little space it allow us to keep the image that we are better. If we are caught committing a crime we are forgiven for it by our white friends (favors) and we walk around as if nothing ever happened and we can go on to provide for our wives and we go on pretending until the day we die. I speak this from the things that I have seen and experienced. I would love to see someone else be this honest. I believe if we stop pretending for just a little why that our life is sooo much better that others. This country will be a better place.

Wow, Willy1979, well said. There is also quite a bit of validity, in my opinion, for what you have stated above. Quite a few of my Caucasian acquaintances have blatantly stated exactly what you've mentioned. And I, for some reason, have always thought they were making those rather strong comments to somehow pacify me or make me feel comfortable by trying to depict that the woes of my culture were of similitude to theirs.

[kcam213]

Originally Posted by Ummagumma

There wasn't as many black middle class.

Anyway, it's not the race; and it's not the class; it's the mentality. And the mentality comes with culture, the people all around you sharing the same mindset; ghetto culture breeds ghetto mentality, just like redneck culture breeds redneck mentality. Detroit has plenty of ghetto mentality, more so than any other city with a large black population I've been to. And this mentality is just as racist as any white racists have ever been. At our work, there's a few young black guys and gals, all of them college educated professionals with middle class background. They are as liked and respected as anyone else. I noticed one thing though - when there's only one or two of them at lunch, they sit down with other people; when there's enough of them to form their own table, they always sit by themselves - they separate themselves from the rest of us. Now, we work in a diverse environment with plenty of people from different backgrounds (Oriental, Indian, European, plain white Americans) yet this is the only group that behaves that way. Now, I repeat - they are all well educated, middle class people. Not everyone in Soutfield or esp. Detroit is that way; a lot of them are poorly educated and very angry; why would anyone who's not black want to live in a majority black neighborhood where you're seen as a part of some evil oppressing force ? I'm not even talking about crime or drug rate.

It's obvious that the white America's mindset had to change - and I think for large part it did; I'm not as sure it changed on the other side, esp. not in Detroit.

Not at my job. The Filipino nurses congreagate, will talk to each other in their native language, in the presence of English only speaking colleagues, will bring food (mini potluck) that is native to themselves and not share with non Filipinos.
It is not just African Americans... when there is a minority, it is more COMFORTABLE to segregate oneself. It sometimes take effort to mingle. Some people thrive on mingling, others, it is WORK. When you want to relax, some people don't want to be on their Ps and Qs and choose to eat with their own kind. If I wanted to eat with the Filipinos during their time of bonding, they are gracious and will share etc. I choose to give them a wide berth to allow them to bond without intrusion. If I noticed a group of whites doing the same thing, I would also give them a wide berth and allow them to bond.

(OT) However, if there is only one seat left, and I want to eat, I don't care who is there, I will sit there to have lunch and if the majority doesn't like it, tough! I have a RIGHT to eat in my work place, a public place etc. If you want to force exclusion, then do it in the privacy of your own home. That is the problem racism.... it is forcing your exclusion (segregated) beliefs on others IN PUBLIC. Not allowed!