[pathfinda94]

Originally Posted by malamute

I think it does depend on how one defines class -- I define class by manners and behavior - not money.

I've seen rich people who are very uncouth, have poor manners - no class, and I've seen people of very humble circumsstances who have a lot of class.

Class is purely income base which is more driven by education. Manners and behaviors are different all together!

[detshen]

Originally Posted by teejuris

"White flight" is neither right nor wrong. It's an expected reality when African Americans are at the center of the consideration/discussion. For me, the bigger question or larger issue is why it matters to so many African Americans that whites choose not or don't want to live near them, for whatever facially offered, surface-level or "justified" reasons they provide: crime, poor education, lack of social options, etc. Really, who cares? Why do so many AAs seek white approval or acceptance? By now, whites SHOULD know not all AAs commit crimes, or fit negative stereotypes. If not, become informed: Read, study, observe and learn. The reason Southfield is feared and regarded in the same manner as Detroit, despite the affluence, educational and class levels of many of its residents and the fact it sits in the richest county in the State of Michigan, Oakland County, is simple: It's considered a "black suburb" or "Chocolate City", as are Highland Park, Hamtramck and Oak Park. Let's not forget that there are affluent neighborhoods/areas in Detroit, such as Indian Village, East English Village, Palmer Woods, Sherwood Forest, the University District and North Rosedale Park, however these areas are overlooked and disregarded for that same reason. Middle-and Upperclass African Americans in these areas have chosen to remain in these areas despite societal perceptions for very respectable reasons. They do not subscibe to the belief that "white is right", therefore flocking to predominantly or all white suburbs to educate and socialize their children. Quite to the contrary, they expose their children to the beauty and pride existent in their communities, i.e., esteem-building programs and activities (Charm & etiquette courses, churches & science centers), art & culture (African American Museum/Detroit Institute of Arts, Southfield Public Library), educating them in private schools and best or high-performing schools in these areas. Many of them are successful products of these same communities and continue to uplift them.

I've never met a white person who was afraid of Southfield, or would consider it the same as Detroit, it's well known as a middle to upper middle class suburb. The affluent areas of Detroit simply aren't well known to people who don't live in Detroit, many whites live in those areas too, suburbanites are just generally unaware that Detroit has upper class neighborhoods. Black neighborhoods are often not very welcoming to whites, I have had many racist comments directed at me for being white.

Metro Detroit in general is an area that is very resistant to integration, most of the time it seems like neither the blacks or whites want to live around each other. It's sad that we forget that while we all have our ethnic/cultural backgrounds, we are also all Americans who generally want the same things in life and could connect on that level. We can appreciate our personal backgrounds while accepting our shared American culture which isn't based on ethnicity.

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by Mr. 248

I've been reading so many posts and seeing so many white people voice opinions that would regularly be kept at the kitchen dinner table with their families in the confines of their own homes. However, because anyone can hide behind a screenname and speak their minds, it shows me how divided the city of Detroit is. I've been living in Southfield most of my life and I just cannot understand why so many WHITE, yes WHITE people feel threatened by the city? Is it so hard to believe that civilized middle to upperclassed BLACKS can live competently in an environment with whites as well without turning it into a "Ghetto?" And by the way, that term seems to just be a code for a predominantly black area, no matter the property values or upkeep. If rap music is heard playing loudly it is a "ghetto." If rock music is heard playing loudly, it is considered to root from the rebellious youth of white suburbia. I am not a racist, before someone calls me one. I went to private school all my life, and was surrounded at all times by more white than black. I'VE EVEN DATED A BEAUTIFUL WHITE WOMAN, however - it seems that no matter what black people do to prove themselves, white America still does not trust us.

Please defend yourselves.

Why should I have to defend myself?

As simply a matter of personal choice, maybe I just don't like African and/or African American *anything*. Who is anyone to tell me who I have to live with, work with, associate with? Isn't it bad enough I can't get away from african stuff at the grocery store? Chocolate, vanilla, coffee, all sorts of things that used to be produced elsewhere are being exported from Africa into the U.S. market thanks to the AGOA. Oh, marvelous. Here we are in a breadbasket county I we're importing chocolate havested by black childern sold into slavery by black parents, to harvest commodities grown in the most disease infested dung pit on the planet. Yay!

That being said, can you handle the real answers?

Aside from the usual "crime, out of wedlock birth rate, blah, blah" arguments that are based in reality how about:

1) Many blacks are loud and abrasive.

2) Most non-blacks find Ebonics and other "jive talk" to be assinine, except of course whiggers who find it and the trappings of Gangsta Rapp to be "cool".

3) Black guys seem to always be playing with thier nuts and grabbing themselves like Micheal Jackson. Strikes me as a disgusting habit. Don't really want to shake hands with that guy or have to share phones, doorknobs, computer keyboards etc.

4) Physical traits - Most non-blacks (I believe) find the hair, skin, facial features and odor traits of Africans off putting. In extreme cases, essentially gorilla like.

On some level "blackness" or "Africa-ness" represents everything people are working to get away from.

This is before we even get to recent Afro-transplants like Somalis.

Bottom line is, in many there is an inate aversion to "blackness" or "africa-ness" that as built in as dogs and cats that don't get along. It's essentially hard wired in, I believe. And it matters not if the blacks in question are upper class, lower class, more crime prone or less crime prone.

No matter what logic you come up with those folks are simply never going to be happy about being put in a cage with something the want away from. The harder you try, the more they will resent it and reject it.

Yes, it really is because they are *black* (or afro, or whatever term you choose to describe what used to be called negroid traits). (And BTW, these folks aren't going to be impressed that you dated a white woman. They are going to see her as a leper and you as a someone that's just wanted to boink a white woman to get back at "whitey". They're going to hate you all the more. Plus an extra allowance of hate if she was highly attractive. Last thing an afro-averse guy wants to do is give oral sex to a gal that been sleeping with disease ridden africans, right?)

Of course there are other non-blacks who are exactly the opposite. I now several. They loves dat black stuff. Their food, thier music, the black athletes on thier favorite team, etc.

Like most human traits, this afro-averse/afro-friendly trait exists on a spectrum. And I'm quite sure it works the other way too (white-averse, asian-averse, and so on).

There's nothing you can do about it when it's built in at that level. Most you can hope for is a peaceful decision to leave each other alone.

Funny, but for Isreal that's OK. "A two state solution". But the same folks over *here* in the U.S. will turn around and preach "tolerance". Funny how AIPAC gets away with that, but "whites" don't.

Well, there's you answer, happy now?

(Basically: "Yes, it *is* because they are negroid.")

[chiroptera]

Wow, JMadison. First you ask why you have to defend yourself, then you go on and on defending yourself...whatever. At least you're honest, I'll give you that.

Anyway, my take on "white flight" - it's not right or wrong, IMO. It just is. It's a matter of people (mostly white) leaving an area - usually inner cities (mostly black) - that are high in crime, have sub-par schools and are generally not nice places to live. So if one has the means to move to a better area with better schools, one does. The people left behind have neither the education or the means, or I suppose, often the desire, to leave. So they stay, and you're left with a core population of uneducated, low skill people with little clue or desire to better themselves. Since they don't have much spending power, businesses move out of the area and it becomes a vicious cycle.

I don't believe it's racist to point out that blighted, high crime inner cities in the US are primarily inhabited by black folks. But fleeing such an area doesn't necessarily imply racism, more that people want to live somewhere safer and nicer. And what is wrong with that?

BTW, and the main point I wanted to make: "White Flight" isn't entirely accurate. Black people who have the education, means and will to leave a blighted inner city do so for just the same reason as white people do.

[GregW]

So where do the blacks with the class, education and money go to?

[chiroptera]

Better towns and neighborhoods, along with all the white people.
Black people with class, education and money do exist - they live in nice homes in places like Grand Blanc, Howell, Davison, Fenton, Clarkston Swartz Creek...
Some are even my clients, imagine that.

Originally Posted by GregW

So where do the blacks with the class, education and money go to?

[w1ngzer0]

Originally Posted by willy1979

I am new to the forum and this conversation caught my attention. I will give my personal belief and then what I know to be true from my experience. The crime rate between white and blacks does not differ as much as the media and society would like you to believe. It is just that white are great pretenders. This have been instilled in us from birth. We like to envision the world around us as perfect if we are in an all white atmosphere. But the truth is that we do get away with more because we are not watched as closely as blacks. We have in our homes abuse, physically, sexually, and emotionally. We steal, lie (boy do we lie), cheat on our wives, create children out of wedlock( we just abort them). The truth is by staying in our little space it allow us to keep the image that we are better. If we are caught committing a crime we are forgiven for it by our white friends (favors) and we walk around as if nothing ever happened and we can go on to provide for our wives and we go on pretending until the day we die. I speak this from the things that I have seen and experienced. I would love to see someone else be this honest. I believe if we stop pretending for just a little why that our life is sooo much better that others. This country will be a better place.

Isn't that the truth. All races have the same problem. It's sad to watch everyone hate each other and watch the feds laugh about it and continue to steal OUR money.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by w1ngzer0

Isn't that the truth. All races have the same problem. It's sad to watch everyone hate each other and watch the feds laugh about it and continue to steal OUR money.

Insightful.

[scottmi]

If someone is leaving an area because they don't like a particular race of people, that's wrong. But if someone's moving because of crime concerns or long-term living concerns (would I want to have a family and raise kids here?) I don't think that's wrong.

Yeah, race ultimately plays a factor in many things. But even in Chicago when I lived there and was harassed by many beggars and felt unsafe in many areas, I didn't necessarily say it was Black people who were making me uneasy. It was shady people who made me feel unsafe. It just so happened that in Chicago the shady people were often black. In Phoenix, AZ those shady people might be Hispanic. In New York those shady people might be Italian.

And maybe people are leaving Detroit because Detroit just sucks now? It gets nothing but bad press and all anyone hears about is more job cuts and higher unemployment there.

I mean, c'mon...does everything have to be turned into a race thing? I didn't vote for Obama...but I sorta hoped after he got elected his rise to accomplishing what only whites had done before would end this stupid race debate nonsense once and for all.

But even with a Black person at the highest position in the US, people still find crap to gripe about.

Except Asian people. They don't complain about anything here in the states.

I like them.

[The Foot]

Originally Posted by chiroptera

Black people with class, education and money do exist

...Are you serious???? What an idiotic post.