Is White Flight Right? (Detroit, Flint: houses, rent, lease)

[pirate_lafitte]

There are alot of problems in Detroit now. While there are blacks who do keep there children in line and keep their property(and themselves) nice looking, they aren't the ones who get noticed, rather, it is the blacks who are poor, or who do sell drugs or committ crimes who get noticed. That is today's problems. Yesterday's(when I mean yeasterday I mean the early 20th century) problem was the simple fact that most whites didn't want blacks around and many began going to the suburbs. Crime and other issues were umbrellas for this.

[and the]

There are alot of problems in Detroit now. While there are blacks who do keep there children in line and keep their property(and themselves) nice looking, they aren't the ones who get noticed, rather, it is the blacks who are poor, or who do sell drugs or committ crimes who get noticed. That is today's problems. Yesterday's(when I mean yeasterday I mean the early 20th century) problem was the simple fact that most whites didn't want blacks around and many began going to the suburbs. Crime and other issues were umbrellas for this.

Where is there a neighborhood in Detroit, where single family houses with yards cost less then $200,000.00 where there are enough people of ANY race who keep their children in line, etc, in such large proportions that I should feel comfortable letting my 10 year old European-American daughter walk to school by herself? The problem is not that the people with traditional family values (who ENFORCE these values) in Detroit are not being noticed. The problem is that there are proportionately so few of them that Detroit is not a desireable place to raise kids if you can afford a $150,000.00 house.

[southernlady5464]

There is an old Southern saying:

The cliché about race relations in America is that Northerners love the black race and hate black people, while Southerners hate the black race but get along fine with their black neighbors.

I'm living down in NC now, had to move from MI due to husband's job issues (he needed one) and we live in a nice (average 200,000K houses) mixed race neighborhood. We have some of the greatest neighbors.

Where is there a neighborhood in Detroit, where single family houses with yards cost less then $200,000.00 where there are enough people of ANY race who keep their children in line, etc, in such large proportions that I should feel comfortable letting my 10 year old European-American daughter walk to school by herself?

Except for the fact that this metro has very few neighborhoods in that price range, we've got lots of those. But plenty in the less than $250K. Liz

[and the]

How about the schools in NC? Cross district bussing?

[southernlady5464]

How about the schools in NC? Cross district bussing

That question I can't answer...our youngest is 21 now. But if you ask in the NC forums, they could answer for you. Liz

[pirate_lafitte]

The only way Michigan will recover from it's own problems is if the whole country was watching them(and if people from all over were moving there in droves, which won't happen without some drastic help). Look at the South, particularly Atlanta. The South had a horrible reputation for violence until it became the place to move to. People had to change, or at least hide what they felt because the nickname "The City Too Busy To Hate" IMHO is just that, a nickname. I live here and no one is too busy to hate. The difference is that not everyone is direct about it. Back in the old days, people in the south were mostly blunt about it and had no qualms about calling a black person the "n" word in public.
Atlanta only seems this way because of alot of transplants moving to Atlanta in droves(and counting). If Atlanta were a dying Rust Belt town, all of the hate would be more noticeable. Detroit has racial tensions. Atlanta has them too. Every city has them to a certain extent. The difference is that Detroit has had a particularly violent history and its economic decline magnifies other problems.

[hsubon]

I lived and worked with a black person who I became friends with. He told me this about the situation, "I move to a white comunity to get away from the nigg##$, White people see the color of my skin, and move out, Nigg##$ move in, and I am back where I started, I do not want to live with Nigg##$ but whites only see the color of my skin."
It is a catch 22, blacks in my opinion do some of the damage to themselfes. Instead of trying to fit in to society and teaching their kids not to getto speak, they keep naming thier kids shaniqua and tawana, talk in a way you need a translator and run their emotions throuth the roof.
Many white people feel very uncomfortable around this type of actions.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by hsubon

I lived and worked with a black person who I became friends with. He told me this about the situation, "I move to a white comunity to get away from the nigg##$, White people see the color of my skin, and move out, Nigg##$ move in, and I am back where I started, I do not want to live with Nigg##$ but whites only see the color of my skin."
It is a catch 22, blacks in my opinion do some of the damage to themselfes. Instead of trying to fit in to society and teaching their kids not to getto speak, they keep naming thier kids shaniqua and tawana, talk in a way you need a translator and run their emotions throuth the roof.
Many white people feel very uncomfortable around this type of actions.

I don't appreciate the use of the "n" word, whether it comes from a black person or a white person, but your black friend had a point about himself wanting to be in an area where he could be safe and then when some whites see him, they move out and then the low-lifers he was running from came in. It is "white flight" in it's classic sense. A hard working black man moves and, a few whites sell their houses for less than market value to the real low-lifers and then the persons who behave in a "ghetto" manner move in. It is a catch 22. Many hard-working blacks try to separate themselves from the blacks who do act trashy and for that reason move into predominately white areas and then many of the white residents don't want them around, mistaking them as "ghetto", and then, well, you know the drill. To me it can be confusing. Black parents can do well by their children by teaching them to act right. At the same time, there are just some people out there who just don't want to be around blacks no matter what.

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by and the

Where is there a neighborhood in Detroit, where single family houses with yards cost less then $200,000.00 where there are enough people of ANY race who keep their children in line, etc, in such large proportions that I should feel comfortable letting my 10 year old European-American daughter walk to school by herself? The problem is not that the people with traditional family values (who ENFORCE these values) in Detroit are not being noticed. The problem is that there are proportionately so few of them that Detroit is not a desireable place to raise kids if you can afford a $150,000.00 house.

People keeping their kids in line and maintaining safe streets is not a function of their income. Assuming that a nicely-painted bneighborhood with pricey houses is safe is not realistic. Some cheaper neighborhoods are well-organized, great places to live with neighborhood associations, watch groups, etc. to keep things good. By me, the problem is that unless you know the people where you're moving, there's no way to tell whether it'll be a good or bad experience. There's no place I know of, anyway, to look that stuff up.

In my experience, some very fancy-looking neighborhoods are extremely dangerous because the parents are off working overtime to buy a new boat or off at a charity ball while the kids are getting into the liquor cabinets and having drug parties and you name it.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by Cliffie

People keeping their kids in line and maintaining safe streets is not a function of their income. Assuming that a nicely-painted bneighborhood with pricey houses is safe is not realistic. Some cheaper neighborhoods are well-organized, great places to live with neighborhood associations, watch groups, etc. to keep things good. By me, the problem is that unless you know the people where you're moving, there's no way to tell whether it'll be a good or bad experience. There's no place I know of, anyway, to look that stuff up.

In my experience, some very fancy-looking neighborhoods are extremely dangerous because the parents are off working overtime to buy a new boat or off at a charity ball while the kids are getting into the liquor cabinets and having drug parties and you name it.

It goes to show everyone that not everything is always what it seems. I moved into a nice suburban home outside of Atlanta(middle class, many professionals) and there were kids going around making trouble. There was even the occassional vandalism.
I think "white flight" stems from human nature. Many(not all though) whites want to "feel" like they are safe from the crime and social ills of society, in other words, "the poor and minority problems", so many people flee to the suburbs believing no minorities=no crime. Not true. I can testify to this myself. I have lived in a "nice" suburb where there were teenage pregnancies, drugs, and crime.