Is White Flight Right? (Detroit, Ann Arbor: house, rent, income)

[Mr. 248]

I've been reading so many posts and seeing so many white people voice opinions that would regularly be kept at the kitchen dinner table with their families in the confines of their own homes. However, because anyone can hide behind a screenname and speak their minds, it shows me how divided the city of Detroit is. I've been living in Southfield most of my life and I just cannot understand why so many WHITE, yes WHITE people feel threatened by the city? Is it so hard to believe that civilized middle to upperclassed BLACKS can live competently in an environment with whites as well without turning it into a "Ghetto?" And by the way, that term seems to just be a code for a predominantly black area, no matter the property values or upkeep. If rap music is heard playing loudly it is a "ghetto." If rock music is heard playing loudly, it is considered to root from the rebellious youth of white suburbia. I am not a racist, before someone calls me one. I went to private school all my life, and was surrounded at all times by more white than black. I'VE EVEN DATED A BEAUTIFUL WHITE WOMAN, however - it seems that no matter what black people do to prove themselves, white America still does not trust us.

Please defend yourselves.

[fopt65]

Your post's title caught my eye. I am not from Detroit, and can't answer specifically about that city, but have lived in NYC and been part of the white flight of the 70's in that area.
For us, it just became a question of numbers. When you become that statistical minority in an area that you grew up in, you start to feel like an outsider. Familiar stores change and become representative of the new majority. Same thing with the local churches and schools. So, now what do you do? You are living in an area that isn't yours anymore. Do you want to continue living in an area that you resent, or do you start new in a different area that has a resemblance to your old area?
I think most of the flight is due to the fact that most people want to live in an area where they feel comfortable and where they fit in.

[GregW]

Things change. Adapt, run or die. Adapting is the most rewarding, running the easiest, dieing the inevitable wherever you are.

[mrkool]

Anyone with half a brain is going to put the best interests of themselves and their family (especially children) first. Things such as personal safety and good schools are of paramount importance. Largely black areas tend to have high crime rates, bad schools, and alot of bad behavior in general (i.e. very high illegitimacy rates). These are statistically provable facts, as well as readily observable. It's not an opinion, and it's not hate. It's just the way things are. Show me any formerly white neighborhood that is now mostly black, and does not have many more social problems now than when it was white.

If whites were the ones committing 80% of violent crime, having 70% of babies out of wedlock, and performing terribly in the schools and dragging them down, would blacks want to live among so many negative social indicators? Of course not. You all would be "black flighting" as quick as you could. It's called self-preservation. And that's precisely what whites are doing. Things aren't going to change until black behavior (as a group, not individually) get alot better than it is.
And yeah, I'm "hiding" behind a screen name, but most whites don't say these things in the open out of politeness. As a rule I say what I think to almost anyone, anywhere. Want my real name and city? If that would make you feel better, come on and PM me...

[BurtsBees]

Originally Posted by mrkool

Anyone with half a brain is going to put the best interests of themselves and their family (especially children) first. Things such as personal safety and good schools are of paramount importance. Largely black areas tend to have high crime rates, bad schools, and alot of bad behavior in general (i.e. very high illegitimacy rates). These are statistically provable facts, as well as readily observable. It's not an opinion, and it's not hate. It's just the way things are. Show me any formerly white neighborhood that is now mostly black, and does not have many more social problems now than when it was white.

If whites were the ones committing 80% of violent crime, having 70% of babies out of wedlock, and performing terribly in the schools and dragging them down, would blacks want to live among so many negative social indicators? Of course not. You all would be "black flighting" as quick as you could. It's called self-preservation. And that's precisely what whites are doing. Things aren't going to change until black behavior (as a group, not individually) get alot better than it is.
And yeah, I'm "hiding" behind a screen name, but most whites don't say these things in the open out of politeness. As a rule I say what I think to almost anyone, anywhere. Want my real name and city? If that would make you feel better, come on and PM me...

Well said. Southfield to me isnt really a scary city, Im just afraid of the unknown because I dont know the area too well (Im an east sider ). White people didnt just get up one day and say "The devil said I should hate black people, so I guess Ill throw all my negativity towards them! People observe, and based on WHAT they see, they make thier own judgements. They see blacks on the news committing crime. They see blacks move in and property values go down (depends on the area), that crime goes up, that things are dirtier. They see on the first of the month that the value food stores are packed with blacks with food stamps. In many instances, Michigan wouldnt allow white people who NEEDED welfare/food stamps to receive them, but able-bodied blacks could. Im talking about 20-30 year old people who drive NICE cars, have 5 kids, and receive food stamps because they can. There are elderly people who are on a low, fixed income and cant even receive any help. Let that soak in and ask yourself (that goes for anyone, no matter the race) and tell me why people wouldnt carry some bias. Its the perception that the public sees and they make thier own from that. Statistically, blacks are 12% of the population but are reported in a disproportionately larger amount of crime. Again, that is why "whites" tend to have that prejudice. Not ONE person here would have an issue with a hard working, acts like a role-model american citizen that keeps everything up with their house, yard, etc, no matter if they are black, white, asian, etc. No one is saying either that ALL blacks are crime ridden, welfare abusing dirty people. If more acted like the good ones we all like, then we wouldnt be having this conversation.

[M TYPE X]

My hometown is in Oakland County, north of Ghettofield. Teleghettograph Road used to not be so bad (I used it most times on the weekends to visit family, coming 'back home' from Ann Arbor). I now avoid Teleghettograph Road and take I-75 SB to I-696 WB and give Teleghettograph Road the finger as I rock past.

In ten more years, you won't even recognize it. It's too bad that I-275 was not extended NB to I-75 near Clarkston, as originally planned prior to the development of the lakes region.

I ate at the Morton's in Southfield this summer, some kind of special they had going on. Otherwise, I would have eaten at the one in Troy.

[and the]

Please defend yourselves.

Do you know know silly you sound in asking people to defend why they left the City of Detroit? Why did your parents send you to a private school? I left the city for the same reason. There was something better available and attainable for my family.

Incidentally, I'd rather have a married black couple with kids who attend private schools move in next door instead of the hillbillies who are renting now, but I'm not holding my breath. I'll probably move again, farther away, to another pricier area.

[Mr. 248]

Looks like most of you are missing the mark here. I did not say speak of Detroit at all...never mentioned anything about an impoverished area. I said, Southfield, so
1. those who know nothing about Detroit, and only come here to visit family - your not really an authority on the topic
2. Mr. Kool, explain where Southfield does not meet any of those standards you mentioned
3. The median house income of Southfield is well above minimum wage, so food stamps or not, Southfield is far from poor.

We live in a society that has many double standards - true. Blacks feel comfortable around blacks, whites feel comfortable around whites - but when it gets to the point that even the GOOD predominantly black areas get stereotyped as "ghetto" - what does that say about those who feel that way? Detroit is one of the most segregated cities in the U.S. so whether all of you know it or not, your mindstate has progressively gotten more racially disparate than the average American. Since statistics don't lie, basically the majority of whites in Michigan carry an overwhelmingly separatist attitude toward living conditions. Without taking this conversation too far and opening up too many societal wounds that have yet to heal in our city, all I'm saying is that Southfield is a victim of racial profiling - it is obvious by everyone's own words - I'm not some overly racial angry black man, I'm simply a researcher and all of you are my primary resources. Just face it people - segregation - even in some of our nicer suburbs - is still quite prevalent.

[willy1979]

I am new to the forum and this conversation caught my attention. I will give my personal belief and then what I know to be true from my experience. The crime rate between white and blacks does not differ as much as the media and society would like you to believe. It is just that white are great pretenders. This have been instilled in us from birth. We like to envision the world around us as perfect if we are in an all white atmosphere. But the truth is that we do get away with more because we are not watched as closely as blacks. We have in our homes abuse, physically, sexually, and emotionally. We steal, lie (boy do we lie), cheat on our wives, create children out of wedlock( we just abort them). The truth is by staying in our little space it allow us to keep the image that we are better. If we are caught committing a crime we are forgiven for it by our white friends (favors) and we walk around as if nothing ever happened and we can go on to provide for our wives and we go on pretending until the day we die. I speak this from the things that I have seen and experienced. I would love to see someone else be this honest. I believe if we stop pretending for just a little why that our life is sooo much better that others. This country will be a better place.

[Mr. 248]

thanks willy - I'm not here to point any fingers or anything, but it just bothers me that my race gets talked about so negatively as it relates to just about anything we do. Blacks have their faults, whites have their faults - no disputing that at all. When we realize that we are all pretty much out here doing the same things - thats when the humility from both sides will surely kick in.