[magellan]

Toyota is doing a massive push to try and resurrect their "quality" perception. Their sales in January in the U.S. were at a 10 year low, due to increased questions about their quality.

Newsroom : Toyota Statement in Response to NHTSA/NASA Study / Toyota

Toyota Sales Drop May Mean Tough Months Ahead on Recall Crisis - Businessweek

I've test driven Camry's every time we think about a new car, and I don't "get" the appeal personally.

[AlohaHuey]

The report came out last week that there were no mechanical or electronic defects in the "sudden acceleration" cases. When Audi cars had the same issue, there wasn't the worldwide attention Toyota received. I'm sure their attempt to resurrect their quality image and the recent report are linked.

[UKUKUK]

Originally Posted by AlohaHuey

The report came out last week that there were no mechanical or electronic defects in the "sudden acceleration" cases. When Audi cars had the same issue, there wasn't the worldwide attention Toyota received. I'm sure their attempt to resurrect their quality image and the recent report are linked.

So peoples feet just automatically gravitated to the floor of the car?

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by UKUKUK

So peoples feet just automatically gravitated to the floor of the car?

I'm merely re-stating what was in the report. Things like floor mats have been known to become stuck on gas pedals. Some people, particularly elderly folks, hit the gas instead of the brake...how many times do you see cars crashing through store windows on security cameras with grayhairs behind the wheel? There are logical explainations for such things. It's called Human Error.

[magellan]

My only point was, I don't think Toyota's quality has actually changed at all over the last year, even with the gas pedal problems. But the perception has changed dramatically.

[stanman13]

Originally Posted by AlohaHuey

The report came out last week that there were no mechanical or electronic defects in the "sudden acceleration" cases. When Audi cars had the same issue, there wasn't the worldwide attention Toyota received. I'm sure their attempt to resurrect their quality image and the recent report are linked.

This is not entirely the case. NASA tested 9 cars, and did not find an electronic problem in those 9 cars. It's a very small sample, and NASA openly admitted that it was not statistically reliable to extrapolate the results of such a small sample out to the hundreds of thousands of cars worldwide affected by the complaints. Of course, Toyota wants it to mean that there was nothing at all wrong. Toyota makes good cars, but they dropped the ball on this in a big way. And what we can learn from this is that 1) Toyota is not some kind of infallible god of quality, and 2) they have a history of covering up problems. At best this is a very poor pedal design.

I wouldn't let this stop me from buying one if I wanted one, but I don't want one, so that doesn't matter anyway.

[canudigit]

Originally Posted by AlohaHuey

I'm merely re-stating what was in the report. Things like floor mats have been known to become stuck on gas pedals. Some people, particularly elderly folks, hit the gas instead of the brake...how many times do you see cars crashing through store windows on security cameras with grayhairs behind the wheel? There are logical explainations for such things. It's called Human Error.

But...humans committed these errors overwhelmingly in certain model years of Toyotas only? If that is so, then it would be a study in itself: why do people who buy 20__-20__ Toyotas tend to get their gas pedals stuck on their floor mats, and why do elderly people who drive Toyotas, as opposed to other brands, step on the gas instead of the brake in such overwhelming numbers? Did the problems surface in cars driven by elderly people only? I'm fairly certain that they did not.

If the problem was caused by those issues, then it would be across the board and be a problem equally in all brands of cars, wouldn't it, unless people who purchase Toyotas are just especially careless, which is a pretty ridiculous assumption, since no brand of car attracts people who all possess the exact same personality traits. And what about those people who reported that when this problem happened with their Toyota, they couldn't stop the car by pressing on the brake pedal, as you normally would? That isn't about human error.

[wagonman76]

Having a pushbutton igniton that you have to hold for 3 seconds to shut the car off is completely asinine. What's wrong with the old keyswitch? Or at the very least, why not 3 seconds to start it instead? 3 seconds is a long time in an emergency. Being able to shut the car off quickly in an emergency should be of utmost importance. A car is still a machine, and any other machine that can be dangerous to people has a kill switch or other means to stop it quickly. If it was on a factory floor instead of the highway, OSHA wouldn't allow a mandatory 3 second delay to shut a machine off.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by stanman13

This is not entirely the case. NASA tested 9 cars, and did not find an electronic problem in those 9 cars. It's a very small sample, and NASA openly admitted that it was not statistically reliable to extrapolate the results of such a small sample out to the hundreds of thousands of cars worldwide affected by the complaints. Of course, Toyota wants it to mean that there was nothing at all wrong. Toyota makes good cars, but they dropped the ball on this in a big way. And what we can learn from this is that 1) Toyota is not some kind of infallible god of quality, and 2) they have a history of covering up problems. At best this is a very poor pedal design.

I wouldn't let this stop me from buying one if I wanted one, but I don't want one, so that doesn't matter anyway.

Once again, I was merely stating what was reported. I am not saying the cars are not at fault, but there are many explainations other than sudden acceleration/electronic fault of the vehicle.

Interesting that it doesn't seem to be happening now...?

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by canudigit

But...humans committed these errors overwhelmingly in certain model years of Toyotas only? If that is so, then it would be a study in itself: why do people who buy 20__-20__ Toyotas tend to get their gas pedals stuck on their floor mats, and why do elderly people who drive Toyotas, as opposed to other brands, step on the gas instead of the brake in such overwhelming numbers? Did the problems surface in cars driven by elderly people only? I'm fairly certain that they did not.

If the problem was caused by those issues, then it would be across the board and be a problem equally in all brands of cars, wouldn't it, unless people who purchase Toyotas are just especially careless, which is a pretty ridiculous assumption, since no brand of car attracts people who all possess the exact same personality traits. And what about those people who reported that when this problem happened with their Toyota, they couldn't stop the car by pressing on the brake pedal, as you normally would? That isn't about human error.

Several points:

You are basing your analysis of the data on media reports of a few highly publicized cases. That, in and of itself, is highly flawed.

All makes and models of cars are succeptable to human error.

There is no "overwhelming" majority of Toyotas or model years affected.

Any driver is capable of accidentally stepping on the gas. Not just elderly. I was using that as an example.

You are taking a few isolated cases and making broad generalizations. I would also submit that despite no electronic fixes, the issue hasn't surfaced again in a long time, at least in the media...that tells me it's media hype and human error as a much more likely cause than an electronic issue, which knows no 24/7 media cycle.