[EastBoundandDownChick]

I applaud Snyder for what he is doing. Finally, we have a governor that understands wealth comes from the private sector and what needs to be done to attract companies to our state. I believe in the concept of unions but feel they put us at a huge disadvantage in the current environment. We would be better off without them. They made sense in another day and age. Now, between competition from right-to-work states and overseas, we have to get rid of them somehow. Just remember, there are WAY more non-union workers in Michigan than those who are unionized. Power in numbers baby!

[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick

I applaud Snyder for what he is doing. Finally, we have a governor that understands wealth comes from the private sector and what needs to be done to attract companies to our state. I believe in the concept of unions but feel they put us at a huge disadvantage in the current environment. We would be better off without them. They made sense in another day and age. Now, between competition from right-to-work states and overseas, we have to get rid of them somehow. Just remember, there are WAY more non-union workers in Michigan than those who are unionized. Power in numbers baby!

And all along I thought wealth came from LABOR?

[magellan]

Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick

I applaud Snyder for what he is doing. Finally, we have a governor that understands wealth comes from the private sector and what needs to be done to attract companies to our state. I believe in the concept of unions but feel they put us at a huge disadvantage in the current environment. We would be better off without them. They made sense in another day and age. Now, between competition from right-to-work states and overseas, we have to get rid of them somehow. Just remember, there are WAY more non-union workers in Michigan than those who are unionized. Power in numbers baby!

Union membership in the UAW in Michigan has dropped by about 250,000 since the year 2000, yet we had a net decline in job creation in that time period by 750,000. If the economic theory were correct, the 250,000 drop should have resulted in a net gain in jobs.

I'm not a big fan of unions and the abuse of power they exert on businesses, but everyone is chasing a false doctrine, that lowering wages, lowering business taxes and disassembling unions will win business back. A lot of so-called "experts" like to look at Michigan job losses, and then come up with a causation scenario that looks like A+B=C. But in truth, it's just a way for them to push their libertarian/ultra-conservative mindset on the populace.

Wages are already low enough in China, yet now companies there are beginning to outsource to even lower wage countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, Northern Africa.

[green_mariner]

It depends. Right now, we do manufacture goods. However, more factories are automating, meaning fewer people are needed. The automobile industry will eventually get back to where it was, but the amount of people being hired will not get back to where it should be. Automation is the name of the game. Taxes won't fix that.

[alleyyooper]

Get rid of it and they will come.

The clean air act, China doesn't have one.

The clean water act, China doesn't have one

Minium wage, Again not in China

Workers comp, unemployee insurance, Another package China doesn't have.

Unions
High wages, seems the wage in china is some like $30.00 a month for assemblers. And if you screw up a product your marched out the back door and shot (nikie 1997).

Now to sum it up.
A Porter Cable cicular saw build in America with Metal parts cost about $129.00.
The same saw built in China today with mostly plactic parts is about $140.00.

Now where did all those savings go? Share holders? Didn't seem to help my dividens any.

It really is about those damed unions why companys leave america.
Union a dirty word here in America but the King of consertives Ronald Regain said they were a need people.

In Eroupe Union isn't such a dirty word either. A union labor in England, France, germany and Poland are well respected people.

Al

[green_mariner]

All of this complaining about unions, well, why were unions founded in the first place? To protect the worker and to make sure the worker got a fair shake. Granted, unions have gotten greedy over the past few years, but so have the people at the corporate offices.

[mike0618]

The union problem is leadership. When leadership will not let a vote happen and would rather lose jobs than save a business by letting their members vote for a cut, that is a problem. It happened here in the indianapolis area last yr.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

It depends. Right now, we do manufacture goods. However, more factories are automating, meaning fewer people are needed. The automobile industry will eventually get back to where it was, but the amount of people being hired will not get back to where it should be. Automation is the name of the game. Taxes won't fix that.

You nailed it sir. In fact, lower taxes may enable companies to invest in automation and productivity measures, which usually = fewer people (albeit fewer more skilled people). But still fewer people.

Another thing I believe I posted here before, startup companies added 3 Million jobs/annually to the U.S. economy in the last decade, according to the non-partisan Kauffman Foundation. While large companies shed over 1 Million jobs/annually. Guess who cares about unions? Not startups. Guess who cares about business tax rates? Not startups. Guess who cares about investments in higher ed? Startups. Guess who cares about cities that aren't hollowed out by disinvestment, and having an ample pool of highly skilled, highly creative workers? Startups.

Job Growth in U.S. Driven Entirely by Startups, According to Kauffman Foundation Study

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by magellan

You nailed it sir. In fact, lower taxes may enable companies to invest in automation and productivity measures, which usually = fewer people (albeit fewer more skilled people). But still fewer people.

Another thing I believe I posted here before, startup companies added 3 Million jobs/annually to the U.S. economy in the last decade, according to the non-partisan Kauffman Foundation. While large companies shed over 1 Million jobs/annually. Guess who cares about unions? Not startups. Guess who cares about business tax rates? Not startups. Guess who cares about investments in higher ed? Startups. Guess who cares about cities that aren't hollowed out by disinvestment, and having an ample pool of highly skilled, highly creative workers? Startups.

Job Growth in U.S. Driven Entirely by Startups, According to Kauffman Foundation Study

It is a matter of worker vs. company. Where else can this go but nowhere good?

[alleyyooper]

"President Obama said he stands by General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt as the head of his jobs council, despite revelations last week that GE didn’t pay any corporate taxes last year. “Americans, I’m sure, who read that story and heard about it, are wondering how this could be,” said White House Press Secretary Jay Carney. “And one of the reasons why it could be…is part of the problem of the corporate tax structure.”

The New York Times reported today that General Electric’s effective tax rate in 2010 was zero. Despite making $14.2 billion in profits, the company received $3.2 billion in tax benefits. GE is able to drive down its effective tax rate via “an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore.”
The fact that hugely profitable companies receive billions in benefits from taxpayers clearly makes the case for ending giveaways in the corporate tax code and cracking down on companies that use tax havens to shelter income overseas

On its front page this morning, the New York Times reported that General Electric — the world’s largest company — made $14.2 billion in profits ($5.1 billion in America) and managed to not pay a dime in federal taxes. In fact, the company actually received “a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.”
The mega corporation’s tax dodging flies in the face of the rhetoric of its CEO Jeffery Immelt — also the head of President Obama’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness — who sought to portray his company as one that values fairness in a speech at West Point in 2009.

Donald Trump on the Letterman show Friday night said American has some of the stpidest laws when it comes to the rich. He stated his friend is buying a plane made in ANOTHER COUNTY for 5.2 million yet he is getting a 3.2 million tax break from the AMERICAN Goverment.

Al