mixed messages on Michigan/Detroit forum? (Lansing, Royal Oak: relocating, estate, house)

[Tex?Il?]

I've been reading these threads on the Michigan forum, and I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on what exactly is going on.

It seems like there are a lot of people starting threads mostly from places outside the midwest; several from California as well as from foreign countries, even one I recall saying "metro Detroit isn't my first choice to relocate but I was offered a job, so I'll take it . . ." Often asking about good places to live, etc.

This really seems to go against all the horrible news regarding the Michigan/Detroit economy and hearing about people having to move because lost their job or can't find one.

How is that people from outside Michigan are given job offers, while others are having trouble. I'm a little confused.

Is it that all the new jobs are ones that are non-auto manufacturing jobs that require advanced education that other people may not have (such as those in the Medical field)? While its mostly the manufacturing jobs that don't require college education are being lost?

Is it that long time residents have had their spirits crushed, after having been through the same thing in the 80s, and just give up on Detroit/Michigan? While those outside the area don't know about the troubled history (and present!)

What's going on?

[bryan61]

The workforce downstate has been spoiled by the auto manufacturers who in turn have been spoiled by the politicians. People are used to getting $20 an hour to start and always having these jobs available. As the big 3 have to deal with the pressure of world competition the belt tightening has everyone screaming, labor, ownership and politicians. Gravy trains over

The northern halves of Ohio and Indiana probably see more ripple effect from auto manufacturers than we do here in the UP. Its hard for us because we have to live with the state laws and business tax structures without the benefit of the large manufacturing base and jobs. Not much is different up here so the hardtimes downstate are relative. I have several degrees and have been working menial jobs most of my life. Its a choice ive lived with but no more when the wife graduates this fall with her Bachelors in Accounting I think we have to move.

[Philip T]

A life-time ago I was from your frozen North parts.

Since that is still on my business resume, I get calls from time-to-time that I might be still interested in working there. Your business folks figure that since I am from there, I might stick around to finish a project. I guess they have problems with that? And yeah, as the OP mentioned, they are for very technical jobs, and Michigan has been suffering a brain drain since the early '80s.

For the manufacturers that stay, they automate. Those are typically the type of projects/jobs folks up there want me for now. Of course, the pattern is that puts more of the working folks out of a job.

I do have to say, that when I parted from there, I sort of suspected that your upper-end sort of liked the way it was and is heading.

But if you want a billion dollar idea to recover the automobile industry at a Henry Ford startup level -- some of you garage types should build an electric car that picks its power up from the highway -- directly fed from the grid, as it were -- no large batteries required. And get the state to grid power a stretch of highway -- like maybe I-94 from Detroit to Chicago. That example would take over the automotive world and put you back on top . . . and totally screw over the petro industry that has been screwing you all for so long.

Good luck and do well.

[allbusiness]

I can't name a manfuacturing job that doesn't require post high school education these days, but the migration toward a high tech, information-based economy is taking a toll on Michigan. In the end it will be fine, but growing pains are always difficult.


My perception is that it's a tale of two states --maybe three.

Here in West Michigan, we've been challenged, but we are thriving. The changes will be seen as the best thing that ever happened when we see it in the rear view mirror (which we still manufacturer here!) Certainly many have lost jobs and have moved away. (And, of course, some feel like they have to bad mouth the area after they leave to justify their decision. Human nature!)

It's a huge adjustment to move from an economy where something like 40% of people worked in manufacturing to something else. I don't want to minimize the suffering of some families with the loss of some 40,000 manufacturing jobs in West Michigan, but the reality is that most of us are loving every minute of it and would not want to live anywhere else. The cost of living is among the lowest anywhere. The natural surroundings are awesome and the cultural opportunites are over the top.

Our typical vision of "Detroit" (as we call everything east of Lansing!) from here on the west side is blight and crime and all that, but the reality is that there are many very cool places in Southeast Michigan too. You just have to look and choose well -- and be prepared to pay for it. Plus there are some incredible place to live in the "thumb" area, NE Michigan (the "sunrise side") and elsewhere.

Then there's "up north", where we'd all choose to live if there were jobs....

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by allbusiness

I can't name a manfuacturing job that doesn't require post high school education these days, but the migration toward a high tech, information-based economy is taking a toll on Michigan. In the end it will be fine, but growing pains are always difficult.


My perception is that it's a tale of two states --maybe three.

Here in West Michigan, we've been challenged, but we are thriving. The changes will be seen as the best thing that ever happened when we see it in the rear view mirror (which we still manufacturer here!) Certainly many have lost jobs and have moved away. (And, of course, some feel like they have to bad mouth the area after they leave to justify their decision. Human nature!)

It's a huge adjustment to move from an economy where something like 40% of people worked in manufacturing to something else. I don't want to minimize the suffering of some families with the loss of some 40,000 manufacturing jobs in West Michigan, but the reality is that most of us are loving every minute of it and would not want to live anywhere else. The cost of living is among the lowest anywhere. The natural surroundings are awesome and the cultural opportunites are over the top.

Our typical vision of "Detroit" (as we call everything east of Lansing!) from here on the west side is blight and crime and all that, but the reality is that there are many very cool places in Southeast Michigan too. You just have to look and choose well -- and be prepared to pay for it. Plus there are some incredible place to live in the "thumb" area, NE Michigan (the "sunrise side") and elsewhere.

Then there's "up north", where we'd all choose to live if there were jobs....

This post is pretty much right on, IMO.

I just moved here a year ago from California. We live in Royal Oak, just outside of Detroit (4 miles). I flew out here a month before we moved to do a little legwork on setting up our house and interviewing for a job. I flew back to California with 3 job offers.

Recently my wife and I have decided to switch places. Of the 2 of us she has a degree and I don't. We have 3 young children so due to child care costs and issues 1 of us have to stay home. Anywho, she started looking for a job 2 weeks ago.

She starts her new job next week on the 7th. She will be making considerably more $$ than I and I will be going to school starting in the winter semester.

Granted, we are white collar and don't work in manufacturing. But I think we are proof that not EVERYONE and EVERY field are suffering in Michigan. Things will work out eventually for the entire state, I think, even if things might get worse before they get better. It will still happen!

And yes, over here in the "Detroit" corner of Michigan, there are still some very nice places! And while it might seem to Michiganders that it's comparativally more expensive here, trust me, compared to Cali it's a bargain!

[Torrid]

People do not realize just how much effect they can have on another with what they say online. I used to come to this forum every day, several times a day. I have quit visiting the forum as much becuz of ALL the negativity that is spewed here. Before I even knew this forum existed, we were SOOOOO excited about our move to the U.P. The more we read what a handful of negative people had to say, the less excited we have become. Your words, face to face or online, REALLY DO have an impact on people. We are still moving north, despite the negativity we've read though. We know about the same amount of people in the U.P. as there are negative spewers here on the forum.....and, they all have jobs and, seem to be doing well. So, with that realization, we've decided not to let the negativity here destroy our goals of living a happy and joyful life where we want to! Honestly though, if I had any advice for anyone here, it would be to stop and think about what you say, before you say it. It's an opinion and, ummm, everyone's got one. I do understand times are hard....not just in Michigan (Detroit area, whatever) but, everywhere. You just have to do what you have to do to make ends meet. And, coming onto an online forum to vent isn't really getting you anywhere. All it does is bring other people down too. If you have to alter your career to make a living, do it and quit whining. I'm sorry to be so blunt there but, whining never paid my bills and I'm sure it won't pay yours either.

[cbmsu01]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

I've been reading these threads on the Michigan forum, and I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on what exactly is going on.

It seems like there are a lot of people starting threads mostly from places outside the midwest; several from California as well as from foreign countries, even one I recall saying "metro Detroit isn't my first choice to relocate but I was offered a job, so I'll take it . . ." Often asking about good places to live, etc.

This really seems to go against all the horrible news regarding the Michigan/Detroit economy and hearing about people having to move because lost their job or can't find one.

How is that people from outside Michigan are given job offers, while others are having trouble. I'm a little confused.

Is it that all the new jobs are ones that are non-auto manufacturing jobs that require advanced education that other people may not have (such as those in the Medical field)? While its mostly the manufacturing jobs that don't require college education are being lost?

Is it that long time residents have had their spirits crushed, after having been through the same thing in the 80s, and just give up on Detroit/Michigan? While those outside the area don't know about the troubled history (and present!)

What's going on?

I'd say it is some of what is going on.

I think that in general, job transfers happen like they would normally - sometimes people get transferred to Michigan, sometimes from Michigan, so obviously there are going to be people getting jobs in the state.

That being said, there are a lot more people leaving the state than coming in.

[bryan61]

Torrid has a good attitude, you will make a fine yooper. The UP is an absolutely gorgeous place to live and the economics of the area is relative. Good jobs are hard to find but realestate is cheap in most places. Two people working for less than 10$ an hour could easily pay a mortgage around here. If ya find decent paying work you can live like a king.

[khfar]

People do not realize just how much effect they can have on another with what they say online. I used to come to this forum every day, several times a day. I have quit visiting the forum as much becuz of ALL the negativity that is spewed here.

Torrid is exactly right. I've quit coming here as much too, and for the same reasons.

My husband was promoted and relocated here recently, which is why we are here. He's not in the auto industry, though.

[scottmi]

There are a few reasons why companies want out of state people - especially ones from far away who don't much about Michigan:

1) In a business, if you're struggling or attempting to do something new---employers sometimes think that by bringing in "new blood" from prospering parts of the country will somehow magically make their business grow as well. It's completely stupid and yet I believe it to be true.

2) Businesses can offer out of state people lower salaries because hey, these foreign folk don't know about the cost of living in Michigan! They have some clue, but it's much easier to convince some non-resident that $40k is a good salary for MI since the cost of living is lower than to pay a current MI resident who perhaps knows that $50k is the bare minimum one should be making in that particular field in that particular area.

3) By bringing in people from far away, companies are sortof banking on the idea that once they're here, they have to stay with them for a long time. Most people don't have the ability to up and move all their belongings twice in a year, so professions and salaries can be easily baited and switched (Sales commissions can be changed, what can you do?, benefits could be changed? What can you do? Salary/Title can be changed, what can you do?). Basically, be very certain your company will insure your employment, pay and expected standard of living for at least a year if you're moving here. Otherwise, the place could close up shop or fire you in 3 months and here you are, stuck in Michigan with the rest of us, writing on City-Data.com.


One hopeful thing for Michigan people though is that the same will apply to you if you ever want to move to another state so I suggest relocating, if you can.