[TurboState]

People don't seem to understand the power of their thoughts. Every negative thought resonates with every other negative thought and brings the collective down a notch. Enough already!

My wife and I started becoming really positive about Michigan and the results have been profound. Without even looking for a new job, the PERFECT job happened to land in my lap recently. We're enjoying the great Michigan summer weather and fantastic natural wonders. We both are gainfully employed and our kids love it around here. All the while I plan opening my own pizza place in a year or two.

Wake up people! The collective negativity is causing harm to you and those around you. Sitting around wallowing in self pity will accomplish nothing. Enjoy and be grateful for what you have, then abundance will come your way. Try it, you'll see! When was the last time you found wallowing in self pity, fear and anger actually resulted in anything functionally positive in your life? Never! So stop it already.

[southernlady5464]

I guess people in the concentration camps could have just happy thought their way out. Wow if they only would have known.
Michigan is on its way down and all the happy joy joy thinking in the world is not going to bring back the auto industry. Unless your happy thinking can bring gas to 90 cents a gallon for the next 5 years we are sol.
GM posted a profit but it is at the expence of down sizeing and cutting out put. GM did its worst in 14 years this year so far second quarter.
as dori says on finding nimo,,, just keep swimming just keep swimming.

But is being all negative getting you anywhere either??? Except maybe more miserable? Liz

[scottmi65]

Thats funny... If SC2u had his way and gas was kept at .90 cents for the next five years and the big two could sell every car they made as fast as they could, the typical auto worker type would sit on their a$$ and not plan for the future (probably blow it all on jet skis' and the like) anyway just like they have in the past. Remember in the early 90's when everyone was getting big bonuses and no one planned for the future. I guess you had your cake but can't eat it now. And FYI Detroit is not Michigan!

[TurboState]

Originally Posted by southernlady5464

But is being all negative getting you anywhere either??? Except maybe more miserable? Liz

Exactly.. People just don't get it.. Their collective negativity is dragging down the entire consciousness of the state. I was up at Sleeping Bear Dunes marveling at the glory of Michigan, and listening to the travelers around me from other states talk about how gorgeous the state is..

Thats the kind of positivity we need in this state, not people focused entirely on the lowest levels of consciousness in humanity. Sheesh.

[swimpolo06]

I so agree... just be positive, there are many worse places to live, we are lucky to live in this beautiful state, and a little positivity can go a long way

[scottmi]

OP, if you gave me money to start up my own restaurant or business I'd be pretty happy too. And that's great YOU have a job - but since I have no clue what industry you or your wife are in, you don't make me feel that much better. And as far as thinking positively - sure - focusing on good stuff is ALWAYS a great idea. But like it or not, sometimes in someplaces there is NOT more good than bad.

And you can argue that its just certain people who think Michigan is crappy - not everyone hate sit here. And you'd be right. But you'd also be ignoring the fact that the MAJORITY of Michigan residents are struggling here and only the lawyers, doctors and business owners are doing okay.

Not everyone has the opportunity or financial resources to be one of those three profession types.

Originally Posted by scottmi65

Thats funny... If SC2u had his way and gas was kept at .90 cents for the next five years and the big two could sell every car they made as fast as they could, the typical auto worker type would sit on their a$$ and not plan for the future (probably blow it all on jet skis' and the like) anyway just like they have in the past. Remember in the early 90's when everyone was getting big bonuses and no one planned for the future. I guess you had your cake but can't eat it now. And FYI Detroit is not Michigan!

Okay, so how much money did you put aside in the 90s? Because really, for someone to feel truly secure about their jobs, they would have had to put away 7 years of pay to cover this recession that started in very early 2000, just IN CASE their jobs went. So these overpaid blue collar workers who, lets just say made $40k a year after taxes, had that salary all through the 90s. They bought $200k+ homes, $30k+ cars and paid for their kids' educations and all that good stuff. In order for them to keep living at that level to now when they'd be let go or forced to take a significantly lower paying job post-2000, they would have had to save probably $200,000 to $300,000 during the 90s. And that's just to keep living at the SAME standard of living. Now if they knew a recession was coming in the 90s and made 40k a year after taxes and knew they'd be out of work by 2000 until, say 2007, they'd have to survive on around $23,000 a year during the 90s to insure they'd have $23k/year coming in nowadays.

Of course, not many people working w/ 23k/year can buy $200k dollar homes, SUVs, pay for kids' colleges, have good healthcare, etc. - all things everyone else in the US WAS doing in that same period of time in the 90s.


That's a retarded defense for "thinking ahead"

[southernlady5464]

lets just say made $40k a year after taxes, had that salary all through the 90s. They bought $200k+ homes, $30k+ cars and paid for their kids' educations and all that good stuff.

You know, my husband and I make a 6 figure income and WE don't even have a $200K home, or $30K vehicles, and we let our kids pay for their OWN education. Just how in the heck does anyone making $40k do all that, without going DEEP in debt???

Our house was $180K, our vehicles were $18K and $23K brand new. Mine is only 2 years old now. His is 4.

By definition, a “rule of thumb” is meant to be a greatly simplified estimate for a complicated matter. So let’s see what happens when I search for “rule of thumb” + “how much house can I afford” on the internet:

Northwest Community Credit Union says 1.5 times your gross annual income:

If you and your spouse have a total income of $50,000 the general rule would be that you shouldn’t borrow more than $75,000 for your home.

CNN Money says 2.5 times:

The rule of thumb here is to aim for a home that costs about two-and-a-half times your gross annual salary.

Washington Mutual Bank suggests anywhere from 3 to 5 times:

As a broad generalization, most people can afford to purchase a house worth about three times their total (gross) annual income, assuming a 20% down payment and a moderate amount of other long-term debts, such as car or student loan payments. With no other debts, you can probably afford a house worth up to four or even five times your annual income

Given that definition, anyone making $40k a year is way over their head in a $200K house. Liz

[scottmi]

Originally Posted by southernlady5464

You know, my husband and I make a 6 figure income and WE don't even have a $200K home, or $30K vehicles, and we let our kids pay for their OWN education. Just how in the heck does anyone making $40k do all that, without going DEEP in debt???

Our house was $180K, our vehicles were $18K and $23K brand new. Mine is only 2 years old now. His is 4.

Well, for starters, I said $40k AFTER TAXES, which is equivalent to about $60k annually. Most people in Michigan would love to be making $40k a year BEFORE TAXES, so if the housing market only has decent homes starting the $150k/200k level (not modulars/mobile homes - stick built), what's the <40k earner to do? It's not like they have a choice. Sure, they can go for that 60s-built house that needs anew roof, plumbing, electrical, etc. for $100k but USUALLY when people buy homes, they don't want a piece of crap that they have to pay on for 20 years. And if you need a description of "decent", go look at any Modular Home and then imagine that being stick built - identical, but stickbuilt. Magically that $60k modular is $150k.

And that's good you have so much money to work with - I'm sure you aren't working at McDonalds or Office Max. But you need to keep in mind that the economic system is like the food chain. The higher you go up, the more people you need to support your income. You may make $100k annually, but I highly doubt you truly do the work of 4 people "below you" making $25k annually. So keep that in mind and do not believe that just because you have the ability to save, buy multiple cars and avoid credit/loan issues everyone else can.

Given that definition, anyone making $40k a year is way over their head in a $200K house. Liz

See above

[scottmi65]

Originally Posted by scottmi

. But you'd also be ignoring the fact that the MAJORITY of Michigan residents are struggling here and only the lawyers, doctors and business owners are doing okay.
Not everyone has the opportunity or financial resources to be one of those three profession types.
"

Where did you pull this hard data from? Sounds more like an opinion.

I do not now any of these professional types(or anyone with a college degree) and everyone I know is doing okay or better and not losing their houses etc. All of my family is from the Newaygo county area and I live in Port Huron and I have yet to meet anyone who is struggling.

[allbusiness]

A "Happy Joy Joy" attitude -- combined with personal action -- is exactly what is needed. My company is doing great in an industry that is down all across the nation. It's all attitude and a kick-ass effort.

No one needs to walk around with blinders on, but frankly -- and I'll paraphrase Ebenezer Scrooge of all people -- a little "thinning out of the surplus population is not a bad thing.

If everyone with a ****ty attitude moves south it won't bother me at all. The Grand Rapids/West michigan area is booming! There are 7 construction cranes in the downtown Grand Rapids area alone --billions in investment in new high-tech health care and med/tech companies and jobs. Spectrum Health is hiring hundreds if not thousands of people in the coming years.

Holland has two brand new office buuildings in place and another new one plus a big hotel are being built right downtown. Haworth is soaring. Herman Miller is in a profit mode. Retail development continues nonstop.

Have you been to Muskegon lately? More development and construction in the past two years than in the past two decades!! New buildings = new companies = new jobs.

Get your head and your ass out of the Detroit/auto-industry doldrums and stop feeling sorry for yourself. Screw the union and move on to a better life. The entitlement attitude of some people in this state is mind-boggling. If I had time there are about three ideas I have for starting new businesses. Find a need and fill it.

If it doesn't work for YOU in Michigan right now, then get the hell out! The rest of us are doing fine! ;-)