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25 years ago, income tax increased from 4.6 percent to 6.35 to save the state from bankruptcy.
Does anyone really think our current financial situation will be a "short term income tax increase"? In 2008, it will raise between .4-.7% (TBD), in 2009 another 1-2% (TBD), and in 2010 and beyond how much???
We have been at 6.35% in the past...increasing Michigan income tax without substantial government cuts could lead to the same slippery slope Michiganders slide down 25 years ago.
We've had 7 years of cuts. Now it's time to raise revenues. No, it probably won't be a short-term increase; it will be a long-term increase, and it will be long overdue.
I'll say it again--just because you aren't paying taxes doesn't mean you won't pay in other ways.
Here's an example: the city of Norton Shores has no municipal curbside trash pickup. They've cut that expense from the city budget, so no tax dollars are being spent on that service. But people STILL have to PAY to have their trash picked up! Instead of paying taxes, every homeowner has to hire a private service to come pick up their trash.
Everyone gets up in arms about taxes. But just because your taxes have been cut doesn't mean you're saving money. This is especially true if tax cuts lead to budget cuts that reduce the quality or accessibilityof things like education, health care, or infrastructure.
We've had 7 years of cuts. Now it's time to raise revenues. No, it probably won't be a short-term increase; it will be a long-term increase, and it will be long overdue.
I'll say it again--just because you aren't paying taxes doesn't mean you won't pay in other ways.
Here's an example: the city of Norton Shores has no municipal curbside trash pickup. They've cut that expense from the city budget, so no tax dollars are being spent on that service. But people STILL have to PAY to have their trash picked up! Instead of paying taxes, every homeowner has to hire a private service to come pick up their trash.
Everyone gets up in arms about taxes. But just because your taxes have been cut doesn't mean you're saving money. This is especially true if tax cuts lead to budget cuts that reduce the quality or accessibilityof things like education, health care, or infrastructure.
That would be fine with me. I would be the only one handling my money for my trash. I would decide the time and company. No meetings, no dinners to decide, no favors to friends. A little less of a nanny state. Do not let them have it in the first place. If I want a service, I will contract for it.
25 years ago, income tax increased from 4.6 percent to 6.35 to save the state from bankruptcy.
Does anyone really think our current financial situation will be a "short term income tax increase"? In 2008, it will raise between .4-.7% (TBD), in 2009 another 1-2% (TBD), and in 2010 and beyond how much???
We have been at 6.35% in the past...increasing Michigan income tax without substantial government cuts could lead to the same slippery slope Michiganders slide down 25 years ago.
What is our income tax now, 3.9%? When was that adopted? Wouldn't that then mean that the 6.35% was short term?
Again, I'm not quite sure what people want cut from the State government more than has already been cut. Maybe a breakdown of what people think is unnecessary (and even can be constitutionally cut) might be in order. All I can think of is what has been cut (police, fire, 1/4 of state workers, roads, state parks, prisons, colleges, education, life science corridor, welfare). Gee, maybe all those cuts put people out of work?
Look at the TOTAL tax rate for each state, and you will see that Michigan currently sits at 19 HIGHEST in total state and federal taxes at 31.1% (when considering federal, state, and local TOTAL taxes). Michigan ranks 16 Highest in total state taxes at 10.8%. See for yourself, the table is at the bottom of the page:
Add another 2% to the state income tax, and Michigan will be in the HIGHEST tax state in America....MICHIGAN WILL BE NUMBER ONE...woo hoooooo! LOL
Something tells me that the one state recession Michigan should probably not attempt to be the highest tax state in America at the same time. Just a guess...sounds like a very, very bad idea for keeping higher paid, more financially able and thus mobile citizens from leaving...
We've had 7 years of cuts. Now it's time to raise revenues.
Such bumper sticker slogans such as "7 years of cuts, raise taxes now" thinking isn't what I'm used to reading from your past posts...you are not looking at the bigger picture for Michigan.
And Magellan...why would you want Michigan to climb higher than 16 highest in state taxes? Again, looking at your past posts...such comments actually surprise me.
Only thing I can think is it deals with life situation. Those who are working, retired, not working, etc. Each has something to gain from higher/lower taxes. But looking at the larger picture for ALL citizens, becoming the highest tax state in America will most likely ensure a decade long state recession, if not worse...
What is really missing is the fact that cig, booze, and other taxes are being raised at the same time, so we will not just see an income tax increase, it is going to be across the board. Already, the booze tax on beer alone is about 50% of the cost. And they have bills in the state senate to raise it even higher!
Check out all the neat hidden taxes and fees that most in Michigan don't even know about. And look how they have increased over the last 30-40 years... (eg. cigs started out 3 cents a pack).
And you might want to say "hey, inflation increased costs over the years...you have to raise tax rates!"...but such thinking would ignore the fact that income rise at a greater percentage than inflation (3.24% average inflation over the last few decades)...thus tax revenues, when based on percentage income tax, has actually INCREASED when compared to the past...even when tax rates stay the same, let alone increase.
So you see, it isn't the revenue that has suffered over the long term, it is all the entitlements, and big poppa sort of "services" that citizens "demand" that have increased well beyond the current state taxation revenues. And all the fruit loop new phone line tax proposals and such we hear about every day that the government dreams up is just another band-aid to mask such out of control costs and keep the well know taxes, such as sales tax and income tax, at the same rate. Thus when they start increasing the well known taxes, they have simply run out of hidden tax revenues and have become pathetically lazy and simply are not doing their jobs of making the hard changes that will actually fix this mess long term.
Tax and spend policy for the state of Michigan is coming to an end, it is inevitable. You can only tax the citizens so much, and that limit will be reached very shortly, if it hasn't already...
Such bumper sticker slogans such as "7 years of cuts, raise taxes now" thinking isn't what I'm used to reading from your past posts...you are not looking at the bigger picture for Michigan.
And Magellan...why would you want Michigan to climb higher than 16 highest in state taxes? Again, looking at your past posts...such comments actually surprise me.
Only thing I can think is it deals with life situation. Those who are working, retired, not working, etc. Each has something to gain from higher/lower taxes. But looking at the larger picture for ALL citizens, becoming the highest tax state in America will most likely ensure a decade long state recession, if not worse...
What is really missing is the fact that cig, booze, and other taxes are being raised at the same time, so we will not just see an income tax increase, it is going to be across the board. Already, the booze tax on beer alone is about 50% of the cost. And they have bills in the state senate to raise it even higher!
Check out all the neat hidden taxes and fees that most in Michigan don't even know about. And look how they have increased over the last 30-40 years... (eg. cigs started out 3 cents a pack).
And you might want to say "hey, inflation increased costs over the years...you have to raise tax rates!"...but such thinking would ignore the fact that income rise at a greater percentage than inflation (3.24% average inflation over the last few decades)...thus tax revenues, when based on percentage income tax, has actually INCREASED when compared to the past...even when tax rates stay the same, let alone increase.
So you see, it isn't the revenue that has suffered over the long term, it is all the entitlements, and big poppa sort of "services" that citizens "demand" that have increased well beyond the current state taxation revenues. And all the fruit loop new phone line tax proposals and such we hear about every day that the government dreams up is just another band-aid to mask such out of control costs and keep the well know taxes, such as sales tax and income tax, at the same rate. Thus when they start increasing the well known taxes, they have simply run out of hidden tax revenues and have become pathetically lazy and simply are not doing their jobs of making the hard changes that will actually fix this mess long term.
Tax and spend policy for the state of Michigan is coming to an end, it is inevitable. You can only tax the citizens so much, and that limit will be reached very shortly, if it hasn't already...
Because I tend to fall down the middle, and I can see the value of taxes and I can see the value of fostering business and not causing undue hardship on taxpayers. I think that Michigan has pretty much gutted itself as far as spending goes. As I mentioned, I'm not even sure what more the State could cut without making Michigan a barren wasteland of minimal services, no streetlights, no sidewalks, occasional snowplowing, bare bones police forces, turn all asphalt roads into gravel roads, etc.. I don't care how low the taxes are in a situation like that, I'd take my family and move. And possibly to somewhere where taxes are higher and quality of life is high.
I'm not saying that an increased income tax is a good idea, but I do think the state needs to increase revenues in some way shape or form. In order to support industry, Michigan has to provide basic infrastructure. In order to create a livable environment, Michigan has to provide basic services to its citizens. We are just not structured to match our tax rates with many of the Southern and low-tax States. And as far as tax cuts go to foster business, I'm not aware of any company that wanted to legitimately expand and create jobs that wasn't able to garner a whole slew of tax credits, such as Brownfield Tax Credits, New Market Tax Credits, SBT (now MBT) Tax Credits, new equipment tax credit, TIF arrangements, Renaissance Zone, you name it, it's available.
Look at the TOTAL tax rate for each state, and you will see that Michigan currently sits at 19 HIGHEST in total state and federal taxes at 31.1% (when considering federal, state, and local TOTAL taxes). Michigan ranks 16 Highest in total state taxes at 10.8%. See for yourself, the table is at the bottom of the page:
Add another 2% to the state income tax, and Michigan will be in the HIGHEST tax state in America....MICHIGAN WILL BE NUMBER ONE...woo hoooooo! LOL
Something tells me that the one state recession Michigan should probably not attempt to be the highest tax state in America at the same time. Just a guess...sounds like a very, very bad idea for keeping higher paid, more financially able and thus mobile citizens from leaving...
We are sitting at #16 with 10.8% for state tax... It sounds bad but when you look at the chart half a point lower (10.3) and we would be in 28th place. One full point and it would (9.8) and we would be in 38th place OR twelfth LOWEST tax state in America. So I suppose you can make the numbers sound bad, (or put caps on something so you are like the doom and gloom local news) but are they really? What does it all mean. Illinois and New York are doing pretty good despite their high taxes.
How to cut costs... Governor takes a pay cut. Legislature goes back to a part time legislature and take a huge paycut. That alone will shave a good million or so off the budget and perhaps motivate these individuals to earn their full time pay.
Also, how about when we whine about road construction we use good materials and common sense. Why do you totally reconstruct a road, then a year later rip half of it up because you are now repairing a section of overpass? Shouldn't you of done the overpass first, then the road. What does highway cost? $2.5million/mile? Why do we blacktop heavy truck used roads, so we have to resurface them every year? That must be a waste of money. There needs to be a crackdown on where money is going, not just an assumption that the state is doing the best it can and we should cough more money up.
If I blew my whole paycheck on stupid stuff and turned around and asked to borrow money from you to support my rough time you would laugh in my face.
What does it all mean. Illinois and New York are doing pretty good despite their high taxes.
"Pretty Good" as in financially forcing minorities away from the over taxed major cities? Good at taking money from citizens via ever expanding taxation...and forcing major mass exodus to make ends meet?
"The black population slipped in places such as New York City and Cook County, Ill., which includes Chicago. Many Northern cities lost blacks to Southern counties and to the suburbs of Minneapolis, St. Paul, Detroit, Phoenix, Las Vegas and Columbus, Ohio."
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmi65
One full point and it would (9.8) and we would be in 38th place OR twelfth LOWEST tax state in America.
Average family income in West Michigan is about $50,000/year. 1% increase in income tax is $500....2% is $1,000. Yes, a percentage or two really, really matters to many. And if two people each make $50,000 each, then it becomes twice that expense.
And no, exact placement in the list of state taxation rates isn't the point, the point is once you factor in the entire taxation of Michigan citizens, we are not a "low tax state", like many articles in the news like to claim. Just because income tax "is only 3.9%...one of the lowest in the nation!!!!", doesn't mean Michiganders are not taxed very much. We will be taxed the most if enough people buy the "income tax used to be", or "3.9% is super duper low compared to the nation". Lies and total deceit when looking at the big picture.
Siberia
P.S. If you want to read a good article on why business tax rates ALSO matter to the financial future of Michigan...read the following:
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